New Motor - Tuning questions to come - Starting with just a couple newb airflow ones

[adam112]

Just got my LSA running last night. Breakdown:

10:1 comp
Flex (almost always just run pump e80)
GP tuning 2.5 (22X/23X .62X lift, 0 overlap) approximately
2" primary LTs to 3" catless to corsa axleback
2.7/9.55 pullies
Ported LSA heads
Ported TVS1900 blower
DW300s active via PWM and a Walbro 490lph map ref aux pump


I notice its idling with less vacuum (as it should obviously) and higher airflow than it used to (1.31 lb/min vs .91 lb/min previous).

Before the rebuild, I had my idle fueling within a couple percent, now I have negative 13% STFT with LTFTs disabled.

Everything I read about idle tuning says to nail down fuel ratio first...VE was not dialed in, or even active for the old tune and setup.

So where do I want to start digging into this? Tweak the fueling for the new idle hertz, then work on adaptive idle?

All input welcome!!

[TCSS07]

always post up tune and log for further help
depends on what your trying to accomplish first ---
if ve wasn't active on your last tune but now is that would explain the rich fueling at idle since ve wasn't/isnt tuned properly and now the ecu is using maf and ve for fueling adjustments - to tune ve - youll need to fail the maf and set dtc's p0101-p0103 to mil of first error and set dynamic airflow to 8k and move the h/o spark to the l/o octane since the ecu will ref l/o spark when the maf is failed - but in that lies sort of a problem with tuning the ve without the OS 2 bar speed density upgrade because you'll be dealing with coefficients and not the normal ve chart so if your not going to upgrade the os system just keep it maf only imo

edit - also if you upgrade the os system you don't have to move the h/o to the l/o spark chart

[adam112]

VE is still 'inactive', it is just idling at higher airflow now, an area that is approx. 10% rich.

Why do I need to update my OS? My e67 already has the VE virtual editor, is there something else I'm missing?

I believe I will start by adjusting maf at idle and confirm it is good on up through normal operating range (new clutch so no WOT for a bit)

I will then fail the maf and work VVE.

Then I will come back and work on my adaptive idle settings.

Sound like a decent plan?

[TCSS07]

You dont have to upgrade, no ... I was only saying that because of the vve tables on how there not a true ve table because it's based off coefficients and when you populate the coefficients it will alter the numbers to get a coefficient number to put in the charts. The 2 bar speed density os the ve chart is an actual ve chart like in the gen 3's ... I just set it to maf only mode and tune it

But yeah get the idle and driving airflow in line then work on idle quality

[adam112]

You dont have to upgrade, no ... I was only saying that because of the vve tables on how there not a true ve table because it's based off coefficients and when you populate the coefficients it will alter the numbers to get a coefficient number to put in the charts. The 2 bar speed density os the ve chart is an actual ve chart like in the gen 3's ... I just set it to maf only mode and tune it

But yeah get the idle and driving airflow in line then work on idle quality

Thanks for adding clarity! How do I upgrade the OS? It isnt available for me in the editor...

[TCSS07]

If it's not under the os tab then your ecm isnt capable of upgrading so I'd probably just leave it in maf only ... but that's me ... or try a blend of maf/ve but have maf take over by at least 4k to allow easier wot fuel tuning imo

[adam112]

Thanks TCSS...yea im gonna run blended to 4k rpm then MAF for WOT.

Too many transient issues to not run blended IMO...just based on my experience with previous build.

[adam112]

Alright, Just figured Id update my thread. A little about me, I am a DIYer and therefore am learning how to calibrate properly. I am more of a mechanical guy by nature, so the computer stuff is more foreign, but I am getting there. I will keep this thread up to date with my progress and share my status, I am open to all input! I also don?t mind researching and learning, no leeching from me here! So that said:

The car is running decent. Cold starts are good to go. Warm starts require throttle input (cranks and spins to 1500 or so, then stalls straight away).

Foot on the brake and idle holds fine. If I have to do a forward and reverse movement, I lose the idle and stall (M6 car). Essentially if I blip the throttle above say 1200 rpm and am in neutral or clutch in, it will overshoot and stall. If it is closer to commanded idle speed (725) it will be fine. If I shift to neutral when stopping for lights, no problem.

This AM I noticed it was idling higher than commanded for the first time (825 maybe) with only 10 deg advance.

Took airflow minimum to 10 g/s.

I tried adding 4 g/s across the board to startup airflow (also tried 2 g/s with no improvement)

Cranking spark I bumped to 9 deg.

I will be logging some more MAF data this afternoon.

I tried BigMike42?s idle tuning guide (flashed with adaptive all off and changes to spark and airflow settings) and it didn?t want to hold idle hardly at all.

My idle timing seems low. I am kinda blind on the airflow numbers as I think my cam qualifies as ?medium? and most of what I see referenced is mild, try this; wild, try this.

I cant upload my only log with this tune; its too big.

[adam112]

Making progress with the idle!

The rich after reflash was screwing me up as it would kill the motor and make it swing wildly to maintain idle, also had to add throttle input to get it running. But this morning cold start was still great and I was seeing TPS of .2% slowly switching to maintain my idle speed, as well as seeing +2 trims at idle now, was -12.

Pulled down my MAF curve on up through 7k hz and have nice -2 trims through that band. Achieved that applying 75% error and smoothing.

The nerd in me was enjoying playing with the P-I data last night and watching the changes to the idle error recovery. I made good progress and have some notes of next steps to try. It’s fun to have this kind of mind challenge again!

[BadAquaBluSS]

Making progress with the idle!

The rich after reflash was screwing me up as it would kill the motor and make it swing wildly to maintain idle, also had to add throttle input to get it running. But this morning cold start was still great and I was seeing TPS of .2% slowly switching to maintain my idle speed, as well as seeing +2 trims at idle now, was -12.

Pulled down my MAF curve on up through 7k hz and have nice -2 trims through that band. Achieved that applying 75% error and smoothing.

The nerd in me was enjoying playing with the P-I data last night and watching the changes to the idle error recovery. I made good progress and have some notes of next steps to try. It?s fun to have this kind of mind challenge again!

BRAF = Base Running AirFlow there's a good video on you tube that works ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW6oM2qY9g8 )


Rich after reflash video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy5giNjGpK0 )