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Thread: 2006 SRT-8 NAG1 WOT TCC apply

  1. #1

    2006 SRT-8 NAG1 WOT TCC apply

    Has anyone successfully been able to keep a NAG1 from applying the TCC at WOT?

    Part throttle the apply and release tables work perfectly fine. But under WOT conditions the car just resorts back to apply the TCC just like it does stock.

    I feel like we are missing some TCC WOT apply and release tables.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moparmatty View Post
    Has anyone successfully been able to keep a NAG1 from applying the TCC at WOT?

    Part throttle the apply and release tables work perfectly fine. But under WOT conditions the car just resorts back to apply the TCC just like it does stock.

    I feel like we are missing some TCC WOT apply and release tables.
    Moparmatty, I just experimented with my Jeep SRT-8 yesterday with disabling torque converter lockup, and it seemed to work fine for both part throttle and wot conditions.

    Were you ever successful in getting yours to respond the way you wanted?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    Moparmatty, I just experimented with my Jeep SRT-8 yesterday with disabling torque converter lockup, and it seemed to work fine for both part throttle and wot conditions.

    Were you ever successful in getting yours to respond the way you wanted?
    Not yet.

    On your Jeep. What is the maximum RPM value you can set the TCC apply tables too?

  4. #4
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    For the apply speed, 1st and 2nd gear maximum rpm is 3825, and for 3rd through 5th it's 6375 rpm. And that's what I set them to for apply.

    On the release speed, I just zero'd everything out for all gears.

    I didn't do a run from a dead stop, but from a roll, it always seemed to hit the stall rpm and just stay there until input shaft speed caught up and then Engine Speed would rise with vehicle speed after that.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    For the apply speed, 1st and 2nd gear maximum rpm is 3825, and for 3rd through 5th it's 6375 rpm. And that's what I set them to for apply.

    On the release speed, I just zero'd everything out for all gears.

    I didn't do a run from a dead stop, but from a roll, it always seemed to hit the stall rpm and just stay there until input shaft speed caught up and then Engine Speed would rise with vehicle speed after that.
    The log picture below is from drag racing this past weekend. You can see the TCC start applying not long after launch.

    Untitled (1).png

    My part throttle works perfectly fine. My issue is WOT from a dead stop. I can't remember if I have looked what's happening @ WOT from a roll or not but I am pretty sure it still starts applying the TCC.

    I have all the apply table settings maxed out just like you do. Your maximum allowable values are the same as mine so we can rule that out. Those values are way higher than the output rpm ever sees so there is no reason the TCC should be applying.

    Setting the release speeds to zero should tell the TCC to not release until the output is @ 0rpm not release at anything over 0rpm correct? . I will try messing with the release speeds again.

    HPT tells me there are no WOT apply and release tables to be mapped out which I find strange.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT-8
    JBA 3" stainless catless mid pipes
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moparmatty View Post
    The log picture below is from drag racing this past weekend. You can see the TCC start applying not long after launch.

    Untitled (1).png

    My part throttle works perfectly fine. My issue is WOT from a dead stop. I can't remember if I have looked what's happening @ WOT from a roll or not but I am pretty sure it still starts applying the TCC.

    I have all the apply table settings maxed out just like you do. Your maximum allowable values are the same as mine so we can rule that out. Those values are way higher than the output rpm ever sees so there is no reason the TCC should be applying.

    Setting the release speeds to zero should tell the TCC to not release until the output is @ 0rpm not release at anything over 0rpm correct? . I will try messing with the release speeds again.

    HPT tells me there are no WOT apply and release tables to be mapped out which I find strange.
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but I read "release speed" as a minimum allowable OSS rpm before release is allowed. If you set that value so high that you never reach the allowable release RPM, then it seems it would always be in a state of "remain locked", which obviously has to have some other influences that overwrite that speed. Otherwise if it locked, and you never dropped below an unattainable rpm, it would always remain locked.

    The description on the release table says:
    This is the speed at which the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) will begin to release in relation to pedal position.

    So, yeah... to me, that means if you set RPM to something you'll never achieve, then the torque converter clutch will never begin to release. It's like a lower limit that defines until what point the converter clutch is allowed to unlock.

    Edit: Ha... the more I think about it, the less sense it makes... Maybe I did interpret that entirely wrong.
    Last edited by B00STJUNKY; 09-19-2018 at 11:19 AM.

  7. #7
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    Yeah, I can see now that I misinterpreted that table definition.

    For what it's worth, I was just driving around and going WOT from a roll. So, maybe that's why I didn't notice the same issue you did from a stop, because I didn't try that. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable beating on the trans much more. I had only disabled TCC lock-up to verify that a shutter I'm feeling in the trans when loaded wasn't related to torque converter clutch slip.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but I read "release speed" as a minimum allowable OSS rpm before release is allowed. If you set that value so high that you never reach the allowable release RPM, then it seems it would always be in a state of "remain locked", which obviously has to have some other influences that overwrite that speed. Otherwise if it locked, and you never dropped below an unattainable rpm, it would always remain locked.

    The description on the release table says:
    This is the speed at which the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) will begin to release in relation to pedal position.

    So, yeah... to me, that means if you set RPM to something you'll never achieve, then the torque converter clutch will never begin to release. It's like a lower limit that defines until what point the converter clutch is allowed to unlock.

    Edit: Ha... the more I think about it, the less sense it makes... Maybe I did interpret that entirely wrong.
    If you are coasting. The converter won't release until is comes down to the value in the table. Same as the down shift tables.

    With the way you have yours setup. Can you go out and log a WOT blast with the following channels?

    TCC slip
    TCC desired slip
    TCC desired pressure
    TCC mode
    Trans current gear
    Engine RPM
    Turbine RPM

    The only thing I haven't tried yet is setting the desired slip tables to 100%.

    The reason I want to do this is because the car is much more responsive to drive in town without the converter locked in 1st through 3rd. When going WOT from a stop I feel the converter locking dragging the engine down.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT-8
    JBA 3" stainless catless mid pipes
    3" Flowmaster American Thunder stainless cat-back
    Injen CAI
    Innovate dual WBO2 sensor kit
    Custom tuning by me via HPT

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    I don't feel comfortable beating on the trans much more.
    It will take it.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT-8
    JBA 3" stainless catless mid pipes
    3" Flowmaster American Thunder stainless cat-back
    Injen CAI
    Innovate dual WBO2 sensor kit
    Custom tuning by me via HPT

  10. #10
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    did you ever work out the adjustments for this? Have a NAG1 that REALLY would like the converter to stay unlocked for at least a little bit past launch...
    2018 Jeep Trackhawk - Blue

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  11. #11
    Check the latest beta. They added tables for converter under torque managment on certain model years.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafrad View Post
    did you ever work out the adjustments for this? Have a NAG1 that REALLY would like the converter to stay unlocked for at least a little bit past launch...
    You have to combine the apply/release settings with the TCC Desired slip to get it to slip by RPM. you can set it to lock but still have some slip until a given output shaft rpm. Setting the desired slip to 255rpms (max allowed) should slip an additional 3-400rpms at least, more if you have more power.