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Thread: Hoping to fix Whipple flutter/ surge at part throttle

  1. #1
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    Hoping to fix Whipple flutter/ surge at part throttle

    Hello. I put a Whipple on a Charger 392 car that was dyno tuned. We have been driving it like this for nearly a year but I would like to resolve it. Just looking for some in site on what to possibly change or play with in the tune file.

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    Post up your tune

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    I may mess with Small and Large range in airflow to see what that does.
    Last edited by orrwhat; 09-22-2018 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #4
    I'm having the same problem when it goes to shift. Looking at the data logs, its pulling all spark and fuel at partial throttle when it goes to shift. I also noticed it only happens when there is no vacuum or boost in the system.

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    Check to see if your proportionality gain is set to 1.0 across the board.

    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ighlight=surge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    Check to see if your proportionality gain is set to 1.0 across the board.

    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ighlight=surge
    That table can be used to fix the surging issue but will dull the throttle response too.....not ideal on a blown motor I feel.

    Re-sizing the airflow tables works much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    That table can be used to fix the surging issue but will dull the throttle response too.....not ideal on a blown motor I feel.

    Re-sizing the airflow tables works much better.
    So how much should I lower the Small and Large Range? Not sure where to mess with the 3rd Airflow section.Screenshot (39).pngScreenshot (36).pngScreenshot (37).pngScreenshot (39).pngScreenshot (38).png

    Tune fileFinal Tune 2016 Charger Whipple.hpt
    Last edited by orrwhat; 09-26-2018 at 09:19 PM.

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    Smile

    "So how much should I lower the Small and Large Range?"


    Errr.......a lot


    Use this tune as an example.. 6.4 with whipple and hellcat 92mm tb.

    15+ 6.4L SRT Whipple 92mm 010.hpt

    Look at the changes in their entirety.

    Airflow tables, driver demand, driver demand flywheel, TB prop gain, cam timing, etc etc

    These all work together and affect each other so you can't just change one table and expect it to be all good.

    I've helped a lot of guys on here with the same problem....the answers needed are all in the tune above.
    (You will need latest beta to open it)

    Oh..and do yourself a favour, upgrade to a hellcat TB or a whipple 102mm TB...the whipples need a lot of air.
    You will get an increase of 1 - 1.5lb of boost with a bigger TB.
    Last edited by Hemituna; 09-27-2018 at 06:15 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    "So how much should I lower the Small and Large Range?"


    Errr.......a lot


    Use this tune as an example.. 6.4 with whipple and hellcat 92mm tb.

    15+ 6.4L SRT Whipple 92mm 010.hpt

    Look at the changes in their entirety.

    Airflow tables, driver demand, driver demand flywheel, TB prop gain, cam timing, etc etc

    These all work together and affect each other so you can't just change one table and expect it to be all good.

    I've helped a lot of guys on here with the same problem....the answers needed are all in the tune above.
    (You will need latest beta to open it)

    Oh..and do yourself a favour, upgrade to a hellcat TB or a whipple 102mm TB...the whipples need a lot of air.
    You will get an increase of 1 - 1.5lb of boost with a bigger TB.
    Ok, Ill take a peak at it. Thanks I appreciate!

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    Woah, you ain't kidding about dialing back the airflow (stock selected was a 2015 manual Scat).
    Throttle.JPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    Woah, you ain't kidding about dialing back the airflow (stock selected was a 2015 manual Scat).
    Throttle.JPG
    Don't be scared
    You will be surprised how well it works...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    Don't be scared
    You will be surprised how well it works...
    Do you have your stock tune? I want to compare those.

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    I don't mean to resurrect an old thread here, but I too would be interested in seeing the stock file of the "15+ 6.4L SRT Whipple 92mm 010" posted by Hemituna please. I am also trying to tune out the surge (light switch effect) at part throttle on my 2012 Whipple Supercharged 392. Having the stock file would greatly help to enable a comparison of stock to stock 392 files (to give me comfort in knowing I can safely adjust my tune to match 2015+ file posted).


    On a side note, I would like to thank Hemituna and all those who post great information on this forum. It greatly helps a lot of folks including myself. I have already significantly reduced my surging problem and improved throttle feel by following Hemituna's advice to reduce the airflow tables on my Challenger (from another thread). Based on the file posted in this thread, I didn't cut out enough. Bring out the axe!
    Last edited by blown392; 11-10-2018 at 09:45 PM.

  14. #14
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    Stock 6.4L Jeep file
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Hemituna, Thanks for responding to my post above with the file! A lot of comparisons and modifications going on right now!
    Last edited by blown392; 11-11-2018 at 05:27 PM.

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    I just wanted to confirm that after a lot of comparisons between the files Hemituna posted and my own, I was able to resolve the surging issue. As Hemituna mentions above, it is about adjusting the airflow table, cam timing, and torque tables. Thanks Hemituna for all the help!

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    Mind posting a stock and modified tune?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blown392 View Post
    I just wanted to confirm that after a lot of comparisons between the files Hemituna posted and my own, I was able to resolve the surging issue. As Hemituna mentions above, it is about adjusting the airflow table, cam timing, and torque tables. Thanks Hemituna for all the help!
    That's great to hear! I was too scared to mess with the other tables other than small and large throttle range. Im probably going to have to get Curt with Injected or OST to fix mine unless I happen to figure it out. I did get a AEM OBD gauge to log AFR.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    "So how much should I lower the Small and Large Range?"


    Errr.......a lot


    Use this tune as an example.. 6.4 with whipple and hellcat 92mm tb.

    15+ 6.4L SRT Whipple 92mm 010.hpt

    Look at the changes in their entirety.

    Airflow tables, driver demand, driver demand flywheel, TB prop gain, cam timing, etc etc

    These all work together and affect each other so you can't just change one table and expect it to be all good.

    I've helped a lot of guys on here with the same problem....the answers needed are all in the tune above.
    (You will need latest beta to open it)

    Oh..and do yourself a favour, upgrade to a hellcat TB or a whipple 102mm TB...the whipples need a lot of air.
    You will get an increase of 1 - 1.5lb of boost with a bigger TB.
    Thank you for all of this.

    I'm just starting to piece together how the torque demand/management system "flows" and this is helpful.

    Once upon a time "driver demand" was as simple as TPS voltage, lol

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    Mind posting a stock and modified tune?
    The files requested are attached. I will make my legal disclaimer here that any use of these files is at your own risk! The modified version is still in the works as I believe I have a false knock issue which I posted about in another thread. I hope that this helps and be careful!
    Attached Files Attached Files