Brand new to tuning after tune shop failed.

[jlman32566]

5.3 4l60e trans, TFS cam 285/292 duration, lift 560/560 lobe sep 114, trick flow gen x 205 heads, 1.7 harlensharp roller rockers, jba long tube headers into no cat single 3" magnaflow exhaust. So started with binging my truck to a performance shop that was just changing tuning methods to HP Tuners. So my truck was the test bed. After 3 months of back and forth we hit the dyno. To my surprise I pulled only 299 hp at the wheels. Now I wasn't looking for a huge turn around but more than that. So I started researching and bought an HP tuner about a month ago and started going through all the posts. I found alot of issue that they did not address. So now I am back to not square one but close. I have tried to understand the "how to set idle" guide and I am having no luck. I don't understand alot of what the tables do and when the 2 people who have responded to my post more or less spoke Greek to me. I know my current tune is jacked up and I feel it is running really bad. My idle is all over the place, I have had some success with some tunes but after a few hours or days it all seems to come back to cruise control feel due to my RAF table I know is wrong, and just can't seem to get, to my idle has a mind of its own. My gas mileage is garbage. Any help would be awesome. I am on the verge of paying another tuce shop to just tell me I got screwed from the previous place. I am trying not to lean towards that cause I want to learn this. I can rebuild almost everything on this truck but I can't tune it? Here is my current tune with a logg with hopefully all the channels needed.

log21sept.hpl
2004chevy12septbasetunefilewithcam(beststartingpoint).hpt

[TCSS07]

do you have a factory file - unmodified

[jlman32566]

do you have a factory file - unmodified

this is the base file i got when I got the truck back. This is the closest I have to unmodified. I didn't have the tuner prior to all the parts I changed on my truck.

AUTOTUNE.hpt

[kingtal0n]

Maybe look through depository for a stock file, go back to stock, then use the compare tune file approach to only bring in changes you understand, one at a time.

While you go through that, read and research the other settings that are different that you don't understand. There are 600 something pages on this section of the forum alone concerning those details.
This way you can learn gradually as you read what each thing does, then bring it back into your tune file in a way that makes sense.

[jlman32566]

Maybe look through depository for a stock file, go back to stock, then use the compare tune file approach to only bring in changes you understand, one at a time.

While you go through that, read and research the other settings that are different that you don't understand. There are 600 something pages on this section of the forum alone concerning those details.
This way you can learn gradually as you read what each thing does, then bring it back into your tune file in a way that makes sense.

That is the best advice I have gotten. I already got the stock tune and will apply all the basics to get the tune started. Thanks for the input and hopefully you come across another one of my posts with success.

[jlman32566]

Ok so here it is. I don't really understand all the lingo and how to translate from posts using old versions of the software, but I am slowly getting it, maybe. So here is my latest tune with log. Please can someone tell me if I am moving in the right direction. I see I am running way rich when I dont use the AFR command function in the scanner to set it at 14.3. I see all these post about the timing for gen III's are 20-24 what table(s) does that refer to? I am sure its the spark tables just need clarification. Also my option for main VE only has a primary is there another table the pcm will fall back on? I have made headway just need to know what little things about fuel and spark tables I am missing. One more thing, how do I keep it from idling up from park to drive when the idle is set to the same RPM?

post to forum 25 sep 18.hpt
post to forum 25 sep 18.hpl

[cobaltssoverbooster]

shouldn't be touching timing until you figure the fuel out. run all factory ignition table values for now. with the large cam the only thing i would say is to bump the idle ignition advance up to about 19-20* and see how it behaves.

park / gear spike is usually do to an error in the idle air tables like BRAF or RAF which are base running airflow and running airflow.
tuning the fuel in and then search russ k configuration to learn about idle air tuning should fix the issue.

[jlman32566]

Thanks a ton for taking the time to look at it, I figured I would need to keep tweeking the RAF. I have done the russ K on prior attempts at this tune. So changing the Idle Spark Advance(In drive/In park tables) to where I wont to idle at 750 in the areas 0-1200 rpm, 0.08-0.28 all these areas to about 20*? And put the factory ignition tables back to stock while I work on the fuel issue. Should I match the High/Low Octane tables with the Spark Advance (In drive/In park) tables? I have seen so many inputs on this just trying to clear it up for myself.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

you can match the spark tables if you want but stock will be fine.
every time you make a fueling adjustment it messes with the idle air loads. that is why you have to get the fuel just about spot on. the load will change with fuel changes and cause different ammounts of air to be required to maintain idle rpm.
idle advance helps but fueling and airflow adjustments will be something you want to work on more importantly than ignition. the increase in the idle advance range is just to provide smoother idle to help with other operations before you come back and finish it.

leave park and gear tables separate. in gear adds a different load than park/n and will cause more headaches.

[jlman32566]

you can match the spark tables if you want but stock will be fine.
every time you make a fueling adjustment it messes with the idle air loads. that is why you have to get the fuel just about spot on. the load will change with fuel changes and cause different ammounts of air to be required to maintain idle rpm.
idle advance helps but fueling and airflow adjustments will be something you want to work on more importantly than ignition. the increase in the idle advance range is just to provide smoother idle to help with other operations before you come back and finish it.

leave park and gear tables separate. in gear adds a different load than park/n and will cause more headaches.

Can't thank you enough will get to work on it today. And I keep posting and hopefully get on track.

[jlman32566]

Updated log and tune, making progress but seems to be running rich at start up when with MAF on and runs a bit lean at different throttle/rpm with maf off. I have been following the drive without the maf and cut and past the fuel table to my main ve table to correct the rich/lean and trying to get the cell numbers 0-3. Please take a look at my tune and logs to see what aspect I may be missing. I feel like I am close.5 oct 18 log file with early start still rich.hpl5thlogfile with maf off.hpl5thvetabletunewithmafdisabled5oct18.hptlogfilefor3rdve table tune.hpl4thvetabletunewithsmoothedandMAFon29sep18.hpt

[TCSS07]

when you disable the maf to run speed density only you should to raise the dynamic airflow up to 8k so the ecm doesn't try to still use the maf for any fueling above whatever rpm you have it set at which is 4k

the correct way to tune the the maf and ve is to do them separately - such as putting the car is maf mode and tuning the maf and then putting the vehicle in speed density mode and tuning the ve - you shouldn't have both maf and ve enabled (blend) while tuning the trims even though you can get the trims in line doing it that way which most canned tunes i see do but it just isnt correct way of doing it since itll use the data from both charts which will conflict with the actual proper data but after you get both fueling charts correct by all means enable the blended style fueling (maf and ve)

your doing it fine - always do 1/2% to avoid overshooting unless the average in the cell is like 10-15% off then sure for those cells multiply by full % - your just going to have to keep working at it is all - ve takes some time to get it right with a wideband itll probably only take a few hours to get maf dialed in - i normally leave ltft enabled and go for 30-45 min drives starting when the oil temp reaches operating temp (170+ degrees) with nice smooth easy throttle transitions between cells (maf and ve alike) to get good data and aim for a -5% ltft average and if you want then move to stft tuning if you like to tighten the trims up a little bit more - you should have dfco disabled or just use a filter to disregard data during dfco so it wont mess with the trims however most of the trim cells dfco will land you in idle cells most of the time so if you just make a separate fueling histogram for idle only youll know which cells are idle specific and can usually disregard them during the normal logging histograms cells

get a wideband if you dont have one because youll need that to tune wot fueling and also you can tune in o/l then and log against afr error % if you wanted but for the most part its looking like your on the right track - you still have some t/m settings enable like abuse mode and torque loss during spark retard - pe enrichment rate is set to 4.0 that's pretty insanely high i never really had to use anything over 1.0 and set the pe ratio to a 1.176 (12.5) across the board rather than having different ratio numbers itll help keep things easier come time for wot fuel tuning since it commands a certain afr number rather than going up and down

[jlman32566]

when you disable the maf to run speed density only you should to raise the dynamic airflow up to 8k so the ecm doesn't try to still use the maf for any fueling above whatever rpm you have it set at which is 4k

the correct way to tune the the maf and ve is to do them separately - such as putting the car is maf mode and tuning the maf and then putting the vehicle in speed density mode and tuning the ve - you shouldn't have both maf and ve enabled (blend) while tuning the trims even though you can get the trims in line doing it that way which most canned tunes i see do but it just isnt correct way of doing it since itll use the data from both charts which will conflict with the actual proper data but after you get both fueling charts correct by all means enable the blended style fueling (maf and ve)

your doing it fine - always do 1/2% to avoid overshooting unless the average in the cell is like 10-15% off then sure for those cells multiply by full % - your just going to have to keep working at it is all - ve takes some time to get it right with a wideband itll probably only take a few hours to get maf dialed in - i normally leave ltft enabled and go for 30-45 min drives starting when the oil temp reaches operating temp (170+ degrees) with nice smooth easy throttle transitions between cells (maf and ve alike) to get good data and aim for a -5% ltft average and if you want then move to stft tuning if you like to tighten the trims up a little bit more - you should have dfco disabled or just use a filter to disregard data during dfco so it wont mess with the trims however most of the trim cells dfco will land you in idle cells most of the time so if you just make a separate fueling histogram for idle only youll know which cells are idle specific and can usually disregard them during the normal logging histograms cells

get a wideband if you dont have one because youll need that to tune wot fueling and also you can tune in o/l then and log against afr error % if you wanted but for the most part its looking like your on the right track - you still have some t/m settings enable like abuse mode and torque loss during spark retard - pe enrichment rate is set to 4.0 that's pretty insanely high i never really had to use anything over 1.0 and set the pe ratio to a 1.176 (12.5) across the board rather than having different ratio numbers itll help keep things easier come time for wot fuel tuning since it commands a certain afr number rather than going up and down

Thanks for looking at this. I did a little more research and heading out this morning to log only ve, since I seem to understand how to get the MAF off better. Then will ensure I have MAF only and see what I get. I have the O2 port for the wide band from the tune shop so will be ordering my wideband today. A thing that has me thinking is how far off the timing table would be from my dyno WOT tune from the shop would be. If they never got the VE or MAF right that should be off too correct?Tuneshoptune.hpt

[TCSS07]

I'm mobile atm so I cant view it but i will when I get home but usually the wot timing should be ok from the dyno shop (but I've seen some pretty fucked tunes) because that's where they usually spend the time tuning just to tell you the power numbers - so as long as your not getting knock you should be ok or just find a factory file and use that timing map to start and work from that - if your still on a 1 bar OS tuning ve you need to copy the ho spark to lo since itll default to the lo spark chart also - but as for part throttle timing who knows - I got a dyno tune done on my car and the p/t timing was all jacked up so I just do the tuning myself now but until you get the wideband in just tune your p/t timing and get those trims better until you can verify the wot afr

[jlman32566]

I'm mobile atm so I cant view it but i will when I get home but usually the wot timing should be ok from the dyno shop (but I've seen some pretty fucked tunes) because that's where they usually spend the time tuning just to tell you the power numbers - so as long as your not getting knock you should be ok or just find a factory file and use that timing map to start and work from that - if your still on a 1 bar OS tuning ve you need to copy the ho spark to lo since itll default to the lo spark chart also - but as for part throttle timing who knows - I got a dyno tune done on my car and the p/t timing was all jacked up so I just do the tuning myself now but until you get the wideband in just tune your p/t timing and get those trims better until you can verify the wot afr

Awesome, they did mention that to me when we was doing the WOT on he dyno. If you get a chance here what I logged yesterday on a really long drive. Slowly coming together I hope. Thanks for the inputs been a HUGE learning curve. A friend of mine let me borrow a tuning book by Greg Banish to see if it can help me out.

log file 2 ve table with maf off 7 oct.hpllog file with maf on 7 oct a little rich at 1200 and1600 but lean on the top end of 2000.hplve tune with maf off log 2____7 oct post log updates to ve table.hpt

[cobaltssoverbooster]

banish books dont really go in depth. if you want it all explained then pay for good materials specific to the process like the package ED has over at ERM.

[jlman32566]

ERM? Can you tell me how to find this? I am all about reference material to show me how to do it correctly.

[TCSS07]

did you mix up the names for the logs because the one that has maf on doesnt have any pids for maf and the one with maf off does and when you say you have maf on do you mean you have a blend tune or do you mean you maf only - dynamic airflow is set to like 200 for high rpm disable and hyst lower than what you have set in high rpm disable cell

the tune does look better for the fuel trims portion. i would stop doing pulls until you get the wideband installed to verify the fueling because it looks like it was knocking during the pull since the timing was lower than what the h/o chart calls for at that rpm/cyl airmass cell i believe it moved over to the low octane spark chart but that log doesnt have knock being logged
bring the pe throttle enable down to like 50% - throttle enable is that plus idle area or something like that so 50% is really like 65-70%
you still have drivetrain abuse mode enabled and thats fine if you want to turn it back on when you done tuning but id turn it off for now

[cobaltssoverbooster]

ERM? Can you tell me how to find this? I am all about reference material to show me how to do it correctly.

i remember talking to ED and he was mentioning they have a package for people that cant show up in person. just call him and ask him if he has an option to suite your situation.
https://ermperformancetuning.com/

or go here and use an at home option
https://thetuningschool.com/collections/gm-tuning

[jlman32566]

did you mix up the names for the logs because the one that has maf on doesnt have any pids for maf and the one with maf off does and when you say you have maf on do you mean you have a blend tune or do you mean you maf only - dynamic airflow is set to like 200 for high rpm disable and hyst lower than what you have set in high rpm disable cell

the tune does look better for the fuel trims portion. i would stop doing pulls until you get the wideband installed to verify the fueling because it looks like it was knocking during the pull since the timing was lower than what the h/o chart calls for at that rpm/cyl airmass cell i believe it moved over to the low octane spark chart but that log doesnt have knock being logged
bring the pe throttle enable down to like 50% - throttle enable is that plus idle area or something like that so 50% is really like 65-70%
you still have drivetrain abuse mode enabled and thats fine if you want to turn it back on when you done tuning but id turn it off for now

Sorry looks like I am skewing my on data by not having my pids correct. Thanks for looking at this I will set up the logs correctly. Been dealing with Hurricane fall out so haven't had time. Thanks for looking at this I will set up a individual log tables for MAF with MAF pids and the non MAF without MAF pids.