HELP! 2009 CTS-V running lean after headers and intake

[Sean51080]

This is my first post here, and I am still learning to use HPTuners. I have a 2009 CTS-V and installed an Air Raid intake as well as Kooks headers and exhaust (with cats). I am running the stock tune and stock O2 sensors. I have bungs for my widebands installed (Innovate LM-2) but have not installed them yet. The problem I am having is my fuel trims are way rich because of the intake and headers causing a lean condition. I don't know enough yet about tuning to redo the correct fuel and spark tables, but I am learning. The car is throwing codes P0420 and P0430 due to the fact its trying to compensate for the lean condition by dumping a ton of fuel. I have disabled those codes, but the problem still exists and needs to be fixed. I don't want to saturate my brand new cats.

I am hoping that someone here can advise me how to get the proper fuel trim based on my tune file and log. I am trying to attach it here for review but it wont let me post the log file? Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!



2009 Cadillac CTSV E67 p0420 p0430 delete.hpt

[Sean51080]

For some reason it will not allow me to post my log file. Any help?

[TCSS07]

If your lean your trim values will be postive (adding fuel) not negative (rich-removing fuel) and your probably lean due to the intake allowing more air into the engine and you have p0420 and 430 dtcs because you now have headers - even with a high flow converter you'll need to disable those dtcs and many o2 sensor dtcs as well to avoid a sea light - on mobile atm so I dont know if your running speed density or maf or both but start by adding 10-15% (1.1 or 1.15) to the maf chart and see how the trims look - I tune via fuel trims for idle and part throttle (like to see a average of -5 ltft) but you will always need a wide and to tune wot fueling

[TCSS07]

Always make sure you dont have vac leaks anywhere or exh leaks - try to post the log file

[Sean51080]

I know it's dumping fuel from a lean condition after the headers. I've been able to monitor the LTFT with Torque Pro on my phone and its pegged constantly, plus I can smell the unburned gas. I don't know why it won't let me post the log file. Is there a file size limit? I've tried both the .zip and .hpl files and no dice.

[Sean51080]

The .hpl file is like 12mb

[Sean51080]

I made a smaller log:

CTS-V after kooks headers and Air Raid intake.hpl

[Sean51080]

I have done a full leakdown test on the intake and exhaust side. Hooked it up to the smoke machine as well as the vac and no leaks.

[Sean51080]

If your lean your trim values will be postive (adding fuel) not negative (rich-removing fuel) and your probably lean due to the intake allowing more air into the engine and you have p0420 and 430 dtcs because you now have headers - even with a high flow converter you'll need to disable those dtcs and many o2 sensor dtcs as well to avoid a sea light - on mobile atm so I dont know if your running speed density or maf or both but start by adding 10-15% (1.1 or 1.15) to the maf chart and see how the trims look - I tune via fuel trims for idle and part throttle (like to see a average of -5 ltft) but you will always need a wide and to tune wot fueling

Which other codes will need to be disabled to not throw codes?

[castorjames]

Can you add this pids to your log: MAF FREQ, CYLINDER AIRMASS.

[Sean51080]

Will do

[TCSS07]

yes definitely add maf hz and also add spark knock and iat2 temperature - as for the dtc's I usually disable all for the 2nd o2 sensor and pretty much all for the front besides low voltage/high voltage and heater circuit so ill know if theres ever a wiring issue or stuck sensor because with the headers now you'll probably get slow response/insufficient activity - I believe theres a thread that lists the dtc's to be removed after header install if you don't want to remove all like me lol

as for the log posted - you are running rich - no other changes were made to the vehicle? it ran fine before and since the intake and header now its running rich? because usually a cai will/should lean out the fuel trims - not go rich - so maybe double check the install make sure nothing is restricting the airflow for the maf and the filter

tune recs -
trans - disable c.a.g.s. - set min coolant to max
engine diag - p0101,p0105,p0121 min ect to max / p0068 enable rpm to 8k / disable post o2 and cat test / turn off o2 sensor dtc's and cat codes which you know
engine - maf is much easier to tune vs vve charts imo and i normally just do maf tunes so you can either upgrade to a 2 bar os if the os is capable to get a actual ve chart back or try to tune the vve charts
fuel - set your rpm delay to 2k or just zero it out / you'll have to mess with the enrichment ramp in rate to suit your needs - i usually have pe kick in around 2 or 3 psi for supercharger to help with tip in knock and to have the extra fuel / set the pe ratio to 1.250 (11.76) across the board and tune the wot fueling with the wideband against maf hz vs afr error to get the fueling dialed in / disable cot during tuning so it wont mess with the afr and if your still catted you can turn it back on if you want but raise the temps by 300 - i just set the temps to 2334 and disable it
spark - stick with the ho spark you have until you get the fueling under control before you start messing with the timing - i do, however zero out the spark adders for gas,iat,ect (ect only from 122 / leave 104 to -4 alone) timing adding spark and leave the subtraction portion so i don't have any outside influence on my timing and its all ran from the ho chart - i set ls engine idle timing between 18-26 depending on mods / knock recovery rate from 3k down set to .5 and i disable all burst knock
torque management - set max torque 1st-6th gear to max / set trans input/output max to max / set brake torque limit to max
t/m supercharger - disable spark,fuel cut and etc and set iat boost to 100%

edit
and for fuel trims - i do closed loop operation and shoot for a average of -5 ltft / maf hz logging ltft or you can put the vehicle in open loop and change some open loop tables to command 1.0 ratio (14.7) and log against afr error - always reset fuel trims after a flash

[Sean51080]

Here is the new log with the added PIDs:

2009 Cadillac CTSV kooks airraid 2.hpl


Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it. I am working on getting some formal HPtuners classes going at my school, but until then I don't want to fry a piston or something. I know the hypereutectic pistons don't handle the heat/boost well, and if I'm running as lean as I think I am, I need to fix it quick. The local shop here in Colorado Springs wants $650 for a basic tune. I think I will wait until I do my cam and 2.50" upper pulley, and most likely get the e85 kit along with some bigger injectors. I am looking to push around 15.5psi with the 2.5" upper pulley and the 9.1" lower pulley, and if so what sized injectors would I need? I was looking at something like the ID1750 injectors but I don't know if that's too much injector for my setup. I have the BTR stage 3 LSA cam, springs and pushrods (not installed yet). I would also need either a fuel pump upgrade or possibly the Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump, but I don't really know. Tuning this beast is new to me, so I am trying to set realistic goals and not get my hopes up when I shoot for the moon. I want a solid daily driver, not a race car. Any tips are greatly appreciated. I'm hoping for 800-850whp with this setup. Am I dreaming? Or is it do-able? Thanks again guys for all your help and feedback!

[Sean51080]

Oh and I also have the 160 degree thermostat and WeaponX Track attack HX. I know I need the upgraded HX pump as well, along with the solid isolator pulley for the blower.

[TAETOE]

Hi, I'm up in ft Collins and have tuned several of these. pm me and I'll give you my phone number. I tune on my awd mustang dyne and been tuning at this altitude for 35 years. we have worn out 3 dynos and on my fourth. Just tuned a cts-v wagon that ran a 11.84 at bandimere on worn out all seasons. I would look at your tune and make sure its safe so you don't pop your engine.

[TCSS07]

if you go on injector dynamics that have a section you can enter vehicle mod data information and it scales out the injector duty cycle are certain rpm for all there injectors to help you choose the correct ones for your goals
i overlooked those pids you also need to add injector duty cycle and injector pulse my bad - you need to know how hard there operating - you also forgot iat2 temps and knock
maf hz range 2750 - 3875 - highlight and right click and copy paste 1/2 % to your maf chart - always do 1/2% so you dont make such a huge change and always save different files so you have a good working back up jic

dyno tunes are the only way to find best afr and spark combo for you car and yeah the 1750 would probably be enough to handle but like i said go on id website and use the injector scale chart - yeah you'll probably need to upgrade fuel pump especially using e85 - 30% more fuel right off the bat

you can reach it probably i put a sc pulley and crank pulley, intake, injectors and exhaust on a zl1 and it make over 600whp on 93

but stop doing wot pulls until you get the wideband in to see what the afr is actually at but your o2 mv were around 930 so your probably ok

[Wheeler]

yes definitely add maf hz and also add spark knock and iat2 temperature - as for the dtc's I usually disable all for the 2nd o2 sensor and pretty much all for the front besides low voltage/high voltage and heater circuit so ill know if theres ever a wiring issue or stuck sensor because with the headers now you'll probably get slow response/insufficient activity - I believe theres a thread that lists the dtc's to be removed after header install if you don't want to remove all like me lol

as for the log posted - you are running rich - no other changes were made to the vehicle? it ran fine before and since the intake and header now its running rich? because usually a cai will/should lean out the fuel trims - not go rich - so maybe double check the install make sure nothing is restricting the airflow for the maf and the filter

tune recs -
trans - disable c.a.g.s. - set min coolant to max
engine diag - p0101,p0105,p0121 min ect to max / p0068 enable rpm to 8k / disable post o2 and cat test / turn off o2 sensor dtc's and cat codes which you know
engine - maf is much easier to tune vs vve charts imo and i normally just do maf tunes so you can either upgrade to a 2 bar os if the os is capable to get a actual ve chart back or try to tune the vve charts
fuel - set your rpm delay to 2k or just zero it out / you'll have to mess with the enrichment ramp in rate to suit your needs - i usually have pe kick in around 2 or 3 psi for supercharger to help with tip in knock and to have the extra fuel / set the pe ratio to 1.250 (11.76) across the board and tune the wot fueling with the wideband against maf hz vs afr error to get the fueling dialed in / disable cot during tuning so it wont mess with the afr and if your still catted you can turn it back on if you want but raise the temps by 300 - i just set the temps to 2334 and disable it
spark - stick with the ho spark you have until you get the fueling under control before you start messing with the timing - i do, however zero out the spark adders for gas,iat,ect (ect only from 122 / leave 104 to -4 alone) timing adding spark and leave the subtraction portion so i don't have any outside influence on my timing and its all ran from the ho chart - i set ls engine idle timing between 18-26 depending on mods / knock recovery rate from 3k down set to .5 and i disable all burst knock
torque management - set max torque 1st-6th gear to max / set trans input/output max to max / set brake torque limit to max
t/m supercharger - disable spark,fuel cut and etc and set iat boost to 100%

edit
and for fuel trims - i do closed loop operation and shoot for a average of -5 ltft / maf hz logging ltft or you can put the vehicle in open loop and change some open loop tables to command 1.0 ratio (14.7) and log against afr error - always reset fuel trims after a flash

TCSS07 thanks for rec's. Can you elaborate on this procedure - tune the wot fueling with the wideband against maf hz vs afr error to get the fueling dialed in.

[castorjames]

TCSS07 thanks for rec's. Can you elaborate on this procedure - tune the wot fueling with the wideband against maf hz vs afr error to get the fueling dialed in.

Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR_a...0&pbjreload=10

on the PARAMETER you can use STFT+LTFT for idle and part throttle as mentioned above and then you can use same table but changue parameter to wathever wideband are you using

[RobZL1]

Here is the new log with the added PIDs:


Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it. I am working on getting some formal HPtuners classes going at my school, but until then I don't want to fry a piston or something. I know the hypereutectic pistons don't handle the heat/boost well, and if I'm running as lean as I think I am, I need to fix it quick. The local shop here in Colorado Springs wants $650 for a basic tune. I think I will wait until I do my cam and 2.50" upper pulley, and most likely get the e85 kit along with some bigger injectors. I am looking to push around 15.5psi with the 2.5" upper pulley and the 9.1" lower pulley, and if so what sized injectors would I need? I was looking at something like the ID1750 injectors but I don't know if that's too much injector for my setup. I have the BTR stage 3 LSA cam, springs and pushrods (not installed yet). I would also need either a fuel pump upgrade or possibly the Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump, but I don't really know. Tuning this beast is new to me, so I am trying to set realistic goals and not get my hopes up when I shoot for the moon. I want a solid daily driver, not a race car. Any tips are greatly appreciated. I'm hoping for 800-850whp with this setup. Am I dreaming? Or is it do-able? Thanks again guys for all your help and feedback!

Based on cars I've seen:
With those parts and e85, you're looking at about 690SAE on 93 and 740SAE on e85, best case (if you're an M6 car, and less if automatic). Getting to 800-850 will require more fuel (DSX adder should handle it), heads, 5" intake, 102 TB and ported snout, ported blower, ZL1 lid (might want some meth while you're at it). 650-700 is pretty cheap to achieve on the LSA. Past that starts getting pretty costly. Plus, once you pass around 750 or 800, depending on how hard you drive it, those pistons become your weak link.

[Sean51080]

if you go on injector dynamics that have a section you can enter vehicle mod data information and it scales out the injector duty cycle are certain rpm for all there injectors to help you choose the correct ones for your goals
i overlooked those pids you also need to add injector duty cycle and injector pulse my bad - you need to know how hard there operating - you also forgot iat2 temps and knock
maf hz range 2750 - 3875 - highlight and right click and copy paste 1/2 % to your maf chart - always do 1/2% so you don't make such a huge change and always save different files so you have a good working back up jic

dyno tunes are the only way to find best afr and spark combo for you car and yeah the 1750 would probably be enough to handle but like i said go on id website and use the injector scale chart - yeah you'll probably need to upgrade fuel pump especially using e85 - 30% more fuel right off the bat

you can reach it probably i put a sc pulley and crank pulley, intake, injectors and exhaust on a zl1 and it make over 600whp on 93

but stop doing wot pulls until you get the wideband in to see what the afr is actually at but your o2 mv were around 930 so your probably ok

I will do another run with those PIDs added. I am planning to put the widebands on this week and do a few pulls to see whats going on. I think my alternator is dying so I need to do a voltage drop test to find out if its the alternator, or maybe a problem on the positive or the ground side. The alternator is in a PITA spot for testing so I haven't gotten around to it. I had some body work done at Abra here in the Springs and they screwed the pooch on it. They sent the car to Midas for the mechanical fixes and I was pissed when I found that out. Technically its my wife's car and she got in a wreck in December and had it fixed but its been back 5 times for various issues. After the last trip back my voltage is varying from 15.2V to 12.2V (completely non-dependent on engine load). With all the computers in these cars I am hesitant to drive it too much until I narrow down the issue. I actually suspect a bad ground instead of a bad alternator. I'm very unhappy with those clowns if you can't tell. I don't really like bashing shops, but this was amateur hour in a bad way.