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Thread: having to add too much fuel at 2500 rpm 2013 zl1 tune lsa id1050x

  1. #1

    having to add too much fuel at 2500 rpm 2013 zl1 tune lsa id1050x

    i have a 2013 zl1 25k on it
    18% percent overdrive pulley rotofab intake lt headers no cats id 1050x injectors and all the correct data
    ive tried the 3 different ways to enter injector data
    1/2 ivt double stoich 1/2 ifr
    used multiplier
    and also set constant 400 kpa in fscm ive even taken the maxed data in fscm and used 1.866 multiplier. match both fscm and engine ifr tables also
    I always have to add over 20 percent fuel at 2500 rpm and extra pe still yet to get correct afr.
    if i go any higher with ve table its messes up above and below that rpm rang if i use the maf i end up with two frequencies with same lbhr. i have to use all three. PE VVE MAF just to 12 afr.
    All limiting has been turned off so im wondering the Can this be part of the intake valve temperature chart throwing it off??? Why 2500 rpm??? Ive moved rpm boundaries map boundaries tuned 2bar table vve. once i hit 2800 rpm to redline its fine. can someone give me a hand as to why the vve isnt being calculated correctly. what parameters do I need to change in order to get rid of this problem.
    is there a a predicted coefecient i need to change. also ltft and stft at lower rpm says pull fuel also yet if i do it goes way lean. I dont want to use open loop airflow gain multiplier to compensate as I don't feel this is the "CORRECT WAY" of tuning. I could do it and multiply 2400 and 2600 vs kpa but this still wouldnt explain why???? its off by 20 percent for crying out loud. ive just managed to compensate using all three tables

  2. #2
    someody please take a look at what i had to do to vve pe and maf to get wot inline. is there a trick or setting to help fuel pressure runs 58 psi all injector data is correct why at 2500 rpm is it lean. on VVE 2400-2600. is there a predicted coeffecient i need to change to help make my ve easier to tune. i shoulndt need 1.3 pe plus the maf plus all that vve added to make 12-1 afr at 2500 above and below this point its easy and perfect. what is cause this obsurd calculations.
    id1050x
    18%overdrive pulley
    rotofab intake
    dynatech lt w/o cats
    fscm tuned to run 58 psi and ifr all scaling entered
    i dont lose fuel pressure there is no way im actually adding more fuel there than 300 rpm higher. The injector duty cycle calculator math i made follows rpm it doesn't actually add that much more fuel there. Why is my vve so and that high spot is also the high spot in maf too. if i go higher it throws off above and below rpm in vve and the maf adjustment anymore and illl have the same lbhr air flow at different frequencies
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  3. #3
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    Do not scale those injectors for a ZL1. Paste the data in from the excel file and leave it. Put the fuel system values back to stock. Why would you reduce them from the normal 65 psi ????
    FSCM need to go back to stock settings.................

    You also need fuel pump voltage booster or upgraded fuel pump system to run that car with an 18% overdrive. There is no way you are running safely at wot like that. If so then you are the first........

    That car should be 65psi @ wot

    Set the dynamic airflow to maf only and get that dialed in before messing with vve

    But I wouldn't be doing any of this without the proper fuel pressure.

    Kook's Headers
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  4. #4
    tried oem pump settings have a jms tried id1050 data its scaled to fit right now using 2x multiplier as it was the least problems and nothing your suggesting has worked. the EXEL file data caps at 127lbs hr regardless it doesnt change anything even with oem without multiplier
    jms is useless at my level it was a waste of money. stock pump will easily flow 600whp without jms without dropping. Basically i tried everything you said theres a reason there are tuned fscm modules. I said that original i used id1050 data it does the exact same thing its an airlfow calculation isssue not a fuel
    Last edited by jpierro79; 10-11-2018 at 02:27 PM.

  5. #5
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    As mentioned you shouldn't have to scale for those injectors.

  6. #6
    there are 3 ways scale injectors.1 Add original data and it fits
    injector data doesnt fit and cut it in half and use multiplier
    3cut injector data in half but double stoich and halve ivt afr.
    the injector are scaled on pressure to open more if pressure is too low. the oem injectors are 1065 at 48 psi 58 more i could run 48 psi right now or 70 psi it wont change a thing as they are scale to fuel pressure. i do know what im doing. Somwhere in the prediction coeffecients its throwing my numbers off cause the icreased airflow as those are are the nummbers they are for a reason. so if you have another idea than sometting ive already done im all ears

  7. #7
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    I had the same injectors with 23% pulley and a cam and had no issues fuelling with stock fscm and no scaling on the injectors. Seems like you're convinced you've done nothing wrong despite there clearly being something wrong....
    69 Chevelle 418" LS3, 11.25:1,PRC 260 heads, TSP 235/239, Longtubes, dual 3", 4L80, 3.42
    2010 Corvette Grand Sport A6, Heartbeat blower, 81mm pulley, Kooks Long Tubes, 224/232 blower cam, ID1050x's, BAP, alkycontrol meth system

  8. #8
    IT DEOSNT MATTER it still does it with oem numbers period thats actually the best solution that worked in scaling so far
    Last edited by jpierro79; 10-11-2018 at 02:42 PM.

  9. #9
    for those who didnt listen to me heres the other tune same problem!!!! took it to a pro tuning too same problem too. so again suggestions?
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  10. #10
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    Your pressure delta is never going to reach 400kpa. That's why you DON'T scale those.

    Why the hell would you reduce your desired fuel pressure???????????????????


    My suggestion is, do what I mentioned above. THEN, post some data logs of the issue if you want help. It's tough when we can't SEE what you are describing as the issue and then see you accuse people of not listening when they want to help.

    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
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    ID850's
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    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper
    JMS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster

  11. #11
    you said stock settings!!! those are stock on the fuel pump !!!!! i posted a second tuneid 1050x with the scaling. Tell me why if i add the multiplier to the openloop airflow gain it has zero effect either something is off. I had a problem an sct tuner previously screwed up my ecu and i had to have it reflasehed back to stock then went hptuners now this problem im begining to wonder if i have ecu issue ever since i went to sct updated tune "Protuned ive had nothing but problems period!!!
    why do i have to add so much there at vve and maf??? I have mpvi 2 with latest software
    i can change maf but then the lbhr overlap i scaled min ulse delta injecor voltage offset all the correct scaled under vacuum as is for zl1 this was proteuned and it was much worse before i fixed a lot of the fueling issues. I just cant overcome this 2400 2600 vve calculation why does it want so much?? if i add more it gets too rich before and after
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    Last edited by jpierro79; 10-11-2018 at 04:56 PM.

  12. #12
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    Why do I feel like I'm watching an episode of Orange County Choppers?

    Regardless, very entertaining.

  13. #13
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    Your Tune that you posted Your settings.png

    Stock ZL1 Stock settings.png

    See the differences?

    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper
    JMS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobZL1 View Post
    Why do I feel like I'm watching an episode of Orange County Choppers?

    Regardless, very entertaining.
    Lol! Yeah, The most correct post so far.....

    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper
    JMS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster

  15. #15
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    I just looked at your logfile. The lean areas happened when your foot was off the pedal. Didn't see any lean while your foot was on the pedal in the suspect rpm range you mentioned.
    Looks like you are forced open loop in blended airflow mode. Not exactly the strategy I would use.
    Last edited by ABADZL1; 10-11-2018 at 05:57 PM.

    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper
    JMS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster

  16. #16
    first of all you have to look at fscm max duty cycle and mine is never set uo to hit default and oem duty cylce is 90 percent 90 ppercent of 450 kpa is 405 which is 58 psi you dont tune in psi thats like tuning in afr vs lambda you learn to use lambda its alway 1 regardless of afr and the ifr vs kpa delta alters injection pw according to pressure so even if pressure changes the amount of fuel delivered is the same. we dont have a return system its a dead head as then call it 100 percent duty cycle =450 90=405 kps which converts to 59 ish psi which gms are know for 58 psi click on fuel pump and look at max duty cycle mine list 100 there for 100 percent of 400kpa = 58 psi
    the injector flow rate table vs kpa is an adaptive table. the ecu automatically compensates pulse width at lower pressure. you can lose 10 psi and still not have any afr drop off i can run 45 psi. its not till you get withing 30 psi vs boost does it get close to affecting it. overcomeing boost pressure to inject fuel. Heres the thing the injectors are designed for 48 psi rating. i hit about 13.5 psi boost. i run 59 psi fuel pressure. ive seen guys run 18 psi on 58 psi fuel pressure. i can take away 10 psi or add 10 psi car does exactly the same thing cause the flow vs offset vs kpa table near bottom of injector data! thats what the offset vs presss vs ignition volts is for a multiplier to constantly delver proper fuel
    Last edited by jpierro79; 10-12-2018 at 12:16 AM.

  17. #17
    nevermind the airflow down legitimately increased much more cause my dyno charts show huge difference in torque curves at that rpm. Comes into full psi much lower and the other settup had no where near as much. I gained 5 psi total and 3.5 of it at 2500 so much larger flow increase and torque damn near flat from 2500 to 5500 im making over 530wtq hitting almsot 600 wtq at4300 so vs before torque just slowly increased. The motor essentially bottle necked no more room for flow up high without alternate fuel or porting. im hitting almost oem crank max torque numbers at the wheels at 2500rpm. Look at all the difference in zr1 engine just to make 631 hp. im just overthinking it. If I had a full open ecu like whats in the focus rs i had i could do anything with it but these ecu's are so limited you have to do some whacky ways of getting fuel unlike the cobb programming i used in the r RS was WAY more complicated and torque stragies for boost dual map before and after throttle body boost controlled by waste gate and tb at same time. 45 spark tables. Wastegate charts by duty cycle toqrue control and airmass. 4 different spark table strategies with 15 tables under each you could do anything tuning wise. No limitations like these calculated virtual Ve charts that cross rpm. Personally I dont think its as precise by any means. think about it why should fueling at 2500 rpm have to affect any other rpm range?Thats teh problem with coeeficients cross multiplying instead of factory wideband w map and boost controled fueling not rpm to estimated airflow. very limited im not used to such limited options. No its no hptuners its GM. Hate to say it but GM needs to get with the times. You really dont need maf sensors anymore. built in widebands with just maps sensors with better fueling optoins. I never had anywhere near the fueling headaches like these charts that have to overlink for no reason. Its usually ignitin timing but ive tuned turbo and NA cars. Not overdriven supercharged cars. Seems to be only place a maf is needed. Even new zl1 wheres the widebands???? if a focus st has a wideband why doesnt 70k zl1????

  18. #18
    i dont think the pcm is limited to correctly tune your setup, you need to read more, running a 5.3L 6L90 Full exhaust, not even id, 80 siemens, 15 psi, pump fuel, afr is perfectly fine, in cl, ol, maf only, sd only, blended, im even using E67 with zL1 base tune, i dont know what your talking about. "Period"...

  19. #19
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    I'm with ABAD on the blended OL setup.

    I see the spot you are referring to where it ramps up to about 0.88 then falls back in line, and I see the compensations you have added in the tune in an attempt to make it work.
    I think this question was asked, but I don't think I've seen an answer yet:

    Have you done a MAF-only pull to see what you get?

    The only thing I see is that it happens right after your dynamic-to-MAF transition RPM, and also right at a zone boundary in the VVE. I'd start by going MAF-only to see what you get. If you can dial it in with the MAF, then you can eliminate a variable.

  20. #20
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    As said no need to scale the 1050x's in a E67 the injector data is delta pressure (rail subtract boost). Put the fuel pressure back to stock or higher. Why you lower it let the computer deal with adjusting the IPW.