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Thread: 2016 Lingenfelter Z06 knock retard

  1. #1
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    2016 Lingenfelter Z06 knock retard

    I have a 2016 LT4 Lingenfelter ZO6 that registers spark knock (not audible) at light throttle and into moderate to high load. When the car arrived it was 11.1 -10.8 AF measured with a AFM1000 NTK sensor before the cats and would take a pile of timing out and run on the low octane map. I pulled the AF back to 11.7-11.5 and it gained torque but still pulls timing and shows knock and runs like wounded duck with no timing. I zeroed out the burst knock table. I also desensitized the knock sensors 20% and tried it and it still logged knock and the high octane timing table looks reasonable to me. We have 93 octane in the car. I attached the tune and the log from this run. I am reluctant to pull more fuel but maybe that is what is needed in a DI car?? I bailed out a bit than tipped back in so its a little jagged but the knock trend still shows. Can I add timing on the low octane map safely so it isn't so ridiculously low? I think the car is fairly rich judging from the soot on the dyno floor.
    Any help would be really appreciated.

    Thanks!
    - Ed

    Gary Run15.hplGary Run14a.hpt

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    Sounds like they tuned it like a port injection motor to me...
    Probably have a lot of power left on table

  3. #3
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    Care to elaborate?

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecasar View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    too rich for di

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    as mentioned you need to lean out the mixture
    E-tuning/remote Tuning Sultan@mastuning.net Follow @MASTUNING Contact/Whatsapp +966555366161
    [URL="http://www.mastuningsaudi.com"]

  6. #6
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    What afr would you suggest for 15psi on pump 93??? 12.2-12.4 ??

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNK View Post
    What afr would you suggest for 15psi on pump 93??? 12.2-12.4 ??
    pump 93 is different in many places. how much ethanol is in your 93, what is the stoich afr of your 93? 14.08? 14.5? 14.7?

    that will make a difference in what PE AFR is correct for what is in your tank.

    or you can tune with lambda since stoich is lambda 1.0 no matter how much ethanol you happen to have and enrichment is a consistent measurable percentage.

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    Stoich is 14.7.

  9. #9
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    Thanks Guys I really appreciate the help!
    I'm diving in tomorrow and will start to digest this.
    I also searched direct injection in the forum and came up with some excellent information.
    I need to learn at a faster rate... I'm becoming a dinosaur.
    Thanks everyone for participating in the forums!
    Ed

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNK View Post
    Stoich is 14.7.
    why do you say that? you are running ethanol free E0 gasoline?

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    Yes sir, not in the US

  12. #12
    Who tuned car it’s really bad

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNK View Post
    Yes sir, not in the US
    12.4 good place to start

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    Tuner zr1driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNK View Post
    Yes sir, not in the US
    pump 93 fuel in Germany is E5 so stoich should around 14.4

    its always better to use Lambda for propper tuning.

  15. #15
    Tuner ZeroBoostBuick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zr1driver View Post
    pump 93 fuel in Germany is E5 so stoich should around 14.4

    its always better to use Lambda for propper tuning.
    Is German fuel rating in RON or AKI ???

    I thought all of Europe fuel is rated by RON. So 93 RON octane is like 87 AKI octane in North America. Correct ???

    In Ontario Canada, 87 octane can have up to 10% ethanol but most stations 87 octane have between 3% and 6% Ethanol. The VAST majority of Premium fuel in ONT Canada has ZERO ethanol.

    Things below the border are a little different.

  16. #16
    Tuner zr1driver's Avatar
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    we use 98 octane RON (E5) thats similar to your 93 octane AON.

    we also have ultimate 102 octane (E5) on the gas station thats like 95 octane AON.

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    I have the fuel at .82-84 and played with timing and still cant get past the KR. I changed the DD and peak torque tables to tq values I thought may be reasonable. Are these cars susceptible of having too low of spark lead and running into pre ignition? It feels like the knock sensors are picking up the noise and correcting the wrong way and making it worse? I attached the run and the tune. Thanks, Ed.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Anyone have any thoughts? I was thinking of adding timing and easing into it and see if its better. I was going to try around 22-24 degrees of ignition advance at medium boost but I don't have a good feel for DI. Any amount of boost I have KR... 1-2psi already. Ed.

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecasar View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts? I was thinking of adding timing and easing into it and see if its better. I was going to try around 22-24 degrees of ignition advance at medium boost but I don't have a good feel for DI. Any amount of boost I have KR... 1-2psi already. Ed.
    torque model......

    how do you know it's real knock?

  20. #20
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    Again thanks for the reply. I don't know if it's real knock. I can't hear any knock and the plugs look clean and not peppered up. I will research and get familiar with torque model for GM. I have done supercharged coyote and modular torque model stuff so hopefully it is similar.