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Thread: New to Tuning, MPG tune timing options

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bushmin View Post
    I agree with you that I will never be able to get consistent results without adjusting my iat/baro but I feel that I need to get a good main timing first before I start to mess with anything else. Plus I am still starting out so I am just trying to grasp a lot of these concepts.
    I am suggesting that you go have a look at them, you'll see a huge jump in the numbers that are in some of the tables. Those should be smoothed out right of the bat. A good starting point for IAT timing would be a 0-1x correction from the 44.1*f cell up to 160*f with -1* across the compensation table (7435).. You'd have to re-scale the IAT table so it reaches out to 160*f. (table 7436).

    But, your the boss on your tunes, you will figure it out. ... and have fun doing it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bushmin View Post
    Okay so I did have it totally backwards haha, so then is -5* before TDC or after, I thought it was after TDC and 5* is 5* before TDC. As far as the pw goes I did just that, I have stock injectors with about 200k on them (2006 5.9 btw) but I have not messed around with anything over the whole map. And so like you said before if I have smoke reduce it (I wonder why that is. Maybe is it because the ignition event is happening way earlier and the fuel is not able to combust) I just did a drive and everything seems fine except I think it might be rattling a little more at idle. I also dont understand how advancing it more will reduce rattle is it because of negative torque.
    Negative is ATDC positive is BTDC. The rattle comprises of a couple things, rapid pressure spikes from combustion of fuel, fuel combustion too early in the compression stroke. If it?s too much fuel combusting way too early, the higher the engine load the higher the likelihood of catastrophic engine damage from large amounts of negative torque being imposed when trying hard to create positive torque. Lower engine speeds and lower engine loads is more permissible to it with damage to the engine. In fact, stock there are points in the cruise region of a stock 5.9 CR engine you can hear the rattle.

    Lowering what for eliminating smoke depends on what is causing the smoke are where it?s causing smoke.

  3. #23
    Tuner in Training MAIDENCR's Avatar
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    I dont have a lot off testing for fuel economie on my tuning since i come with a really good tuning the day i put my truck in storage but for timing and rail pressure i bypassed iat,ect,baro and boost table to have theme make what i wanted

  4. #24
    The correction tables are tricky. For example, 04.5-07 timing boost correction table only gets used when the calculated timing value of the correction table and its multiplier table is greater than the value calculated to be used from the main timing table for the same rpm/mm3.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MAIDENCR View Post
    I dont have a lot off testing for fuel economie on my tuning since i come with a really good tuning the day i put my truck in storage but for timing and rail pressure i bypassed iat,ect,baro and boost table to have theme make what i wanted
    Not sure with the 03 but zeroing our the rail pressure it?s correction multiplier tables isn?t such a good idea on 04.5 plus. It really screws things up and will have a hard time reaching commanded or may not even reach commanded. 04.5 plus those use that correction multipliers full time.

  6. #26
    Tuner in Training MAIDENCR's Avatar
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    I did not put it to zero...but made some change to always have the pressure i want...because on cold weather like 5deg C and below it would drop rail pressure a 8-9k at cruise instead of 13-14k

  7. #27
    Ok good. Best to set it just to the point where it maintains desired rail pressured or the given ECT and IMT. I say IMT because that?s what?s actually used according to Cummins, who wrote the algorithms in the ecm. There is a difference between what the IAT sensor will read and what the IMT sensor will read. Set it too high and you can get runaway rail pressure conditions.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
    I am suggesting that you go have a look at them, you'll see a huge jump in the numbers that are in some of the tables. Those should be smoothed out right of the bat. A good starting point for IAT timing would be a 0-1x correction from the 44.1*f cell up to 160*f with -1* across the compensation table (7435).. You'd have to re-scale the IAT table so it reaches out to 160*f. (table 7436).

    But, your the boss on your tunes, you will figure it out. ... and have fun doing it.
    I will have to look into all of it more, maybe I might need to start a thread once I start getting into that haha

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Negative is ATDC positive is BTDC. The rattle comprises of a couple things, rapid pressure spikes from combustion of fuel, fuel combustion too early in the compression stroke. If it?s too much fuel combusting way too early, the higher the engine load the higher the likelihood of catastrophic engine damage from large amounts of negative torque being imposed when trying hard to create positive torque. Lower engine speeds and lower engine loads is more permissible to it with damage to the engine. In fact, stock there are points in the cruise region of a stock 5.9 CR engine you can hear the rattle.

    Lowering what for eliminating smoke depends on what is causing the smoke are where it?s causing smoke.
    How far can I advance the timing without it being to much? Is that something I need to figure out for myself or is there a set number when it starts becoming to much?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bushmin View Post
    How far can I advance the timing without it being to much? Is that something I need to figure out for myself or is there a set number when it starts becoming to much?
    There really isn?t a set number, listen to what the engine is telling you

  11. #31
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    does increasing pw duration increase the amount of fuel because it is open longer or does it only spray the mm3 commanded and it just takes a longer time to output that amount. If so, what does pw duration even adjust? What role does the time it takes to inject fuel play?

  12. #32
    Pulse width table defines the time it takes to inject x amount of fuel at x amount of pressure. You will find that if you increase pulse width say in your cruise region of the table it will result in lower main injection quantity and if you decrease pulse width in the same region it will increase main injection quantity. If you decrease or increase the pulse width enough. Upper quantity and rail pressure end of the map people increase to hold the injectors open longer for more power. It?s best to get more fuel in through rail pressure for more power first, high rail pressure provides cleaner burning of the fuel and gets the fuel out faster. The higher the rpms the shorter the window you have to inject fuel. If you can?t get any more through rail pressure increase pulse width for more. With good timing, most you can get with rail pressure and through increased pulse width you are starting to get smoke and want more power, time to upgrade to bigger injectors and more air. In the cruise region with oversized injectors, depending on your rail pressure you are running, it can be very easy to overshoot how much to adjust pulse width to compensate for larger injectors, very very easy. Most think that if you reduce pulse width in the idle/cruise region it?ll give them less smoke out the tailpipe and better mileage but more often then not it becomes worse. The final main injection quantity is a calculated value by the ecm to deliver the torque requested, lower the pulse width and it can no longer make the requested torque it will just automatically increase injection pulse width and inject higher quantity to make the requested torque.