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Thread: 2018 manifold in s197

  1. #1

    2018 manifold in s197

    What VCT settings are you guys seeing reaps the best benefit for these 18 manifolds on s197s?

    A customers vehicle lost 4 MPH in the eighth switching over to the 18 from his stock mani.

    My current VCT settings are roughly on intake

    -50 from idle til 2k rpm, -45 til 3k, -40 til 4k, -30 til 5k, -20 til 7k

    On exhaust
    0 til 2k
    And tapers to 15ish

    I would still expect some sort of power gain alone with the intake. I'm assuming something else might be an issue. Throttle is not shutting. maf curve didnt really need any changes, had about 7% too much fuel, obviously indicating loss of power.

    Any hints on vct settings? Thinking of retarding the intake cam even more after 6k. Maybe 0*

  2. #2
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    Does he have an other mods besides the 18 intake? Do you have a datalog of the the car?
    Keep your IVO-50 until 4000-4500 RPM and retard the ivo to around -27 by 7500. Don't retard IVO too much or you'll miss the power opportunity.
    Don't tapper EVC. Start with 12*. at 3000 retard to 17 or 18* until 4000, then 15* at 4500 and 14* at 5500

    It does depend on what's done to the car

    Here's a 2d
    2dmod.JPG

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    Does he have an other mods besides the 18 intake? Do you have a datalog of the the car?
    Keep your IVO-50 until 4000-4500 RPM and retard the ivo to around -27 by 7500. Don't retard IVO too much or you'll miss the power opportunity.
    Don't tapper EVC. Start with 12*. at 3000 retard to 17 or 18* until 4000, then 15* at 4500 and 14* at 5500

    It does depend on what's done to the car

    Here's a 2d
    2dmod.JPG
    This is the most "powerfull" settings with 2018 intake ?

  4. #4
    Well, I did some tuning on the dyno and the car went from 434 rwhp with the factory 14 Intake mani, to 380 rwhp with the 2018 intake manifold. I tried making all sorts of adjustments, VCT and timing, and just won't budge. The car doesn't miss, and the IMRCs are pulled back via the ziptie method. Not sure wtf is wrong with this thing. E85, catless, CAI from JLT, and 2018 intake.

    Timing is at 29*, .84 lambda.. not sure what else to do. Ill be attaching a log of the dyno pull and the tune.380 rwhp coyote.hpl380rwhp coyote.hpl2014_mustang_GT 18 intake mani.hpt
    Last edited by cesar; 1 Week Ago at 02:01 AM.

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    VCT timing can rob a lot of HP. Start form stock VCT values as they are usually best for N/A and work your way there.

    Your torque model is way off, you need to fix this.

  6. #6
    Torque model may be off, but I'm just trying to figure out where did 50 horsepower go. Cam angles were bracketed both on intake and exhaust, and theres no way I'm picking up 50whp with the VCT now. 3 weeks prior we made 434rwhp, now it's at 380rwhp with this intake. I cant seem to figure out the issue.

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    Something has to be off I know someone who had there 14 gt that was tubes put on the dyno where the intake was bolted on and he picked up about 30 ho at the top on a uotouched tune.

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cesar View Post
    Torque model may be off, but I'm just trying to figure out where did 50 horsepower go. Cam angles were bracketed both on intake and exhaust, and theres no way I'm picking up 50whp with the VCT now. 3 weeks prior we made 434rwhp, now it's at 380rwhp with this intake. I cant seem to figure out the issue.
    Of course it is.

    S550-wise you can't screw cams that bad to lose 50hp but S197-wise you can completely ruin your power with wrong VCT settings.

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    I'd start off with the stock tune rather than that Bama tune you over wrote on. The wheel torque error numbering along with other items changed to a specific numbering is a dead giveaway. You also have global spark adder -2 but have it adding 1-3 degrees of spark through the lambda adder for wot. Not sure what you are trying to do there. Manifold volume is still stock. The car has a CL/OL fault and from the looks of it, it seems it's from a dead o2 sensor.

    VCT can kill or make power but you need to start from scratch and with a vehicle that is operating as it should without any faults. With VCT, you have to understand why advancing/retarding the cams make power rather than punching in random numbers. Others have made some suggestions with other issues the tune has but you seemed to have brushed it off and just want to concentrate on just power making.

    As I said, start with a stock tune and even stock VCT like mentioned by veeefour and work your way there. Don't try and brush off the basics, it'll end up giving you issues on the long run. Just start out fresh man and I'm sure you'll get it done no problem.
    Last edited by Ortiz; 1 Week Ago at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ortiz View Post
    I'd start off with the stock tune rather than that Bama tune you over wrote on. The wheel torque error numbering along with other items changed to a specific numbering is a dead giveaway. You also have global spark adder -2 but have it adding 1-3 degrees of spark through the lambda adder for wot. Not sure what you are trying to do there. Manifold volume is still stock. The car has a CL/OL fault and from the looks of it, it seems it's from a dead o2 sensor.

    VCT can kill or make power but you need to start from scratch and with a vehicle that is operating as it should without any faults. With VCT, you have to understand why advancing/retarding the cams make power rather than punching in random numbers. Others have made some suggestions with other issues the tune has but you seemed to have brushed it off and just want to concentrate on just power making.

    As I said, start with a stock tune and even stock VCT like mentioned by veeefour and work your way there. Don't try and brush off the basics, it'll end up giving you issues on the long run.
    I’d listen to Ortiz he knows what he is talking about. I’d start with fixing the basics like he and several others have posted about and report back.

  11. #11
    One of the logs had a dead o2, it was fixed. Didnt change anything as the maf transfer curve was close.
    It originally was a BAMA tune. The global adder being -2 was to see if I was past MBT. Quick way to do it. The lambda adder was set like so due to the e85R we added, to not make changes to the base OP map.

    I bracketed the intake cam from -50 to 0 while keeping the exhaust cam fixed.
    You want to advance the intake cam down low and retard up top vise versa for the exhaust. I'm not a complete beginner. But I found all the intake angles, which are most critical, that make the best power per RPM and set it like so. I find it hard to believe that WITHOUT VCT tuning, my previous tune went from 434rwhp to 380 rwhp when people are gaining power still on factory tunes.

    I looked at the 18 angles from factory and they look very strange but it seems they reference a different IVO and EVC defined on the file, or am i wrong.

    Thanks everyone for the input, want to figure this out for sure.

  12. #12
    Put factory intake mani back on
    Factory vvt

    Made 380 rwhp

    No blow by, no misfiring.

    All plugs are perfect.

    At this point we are guessing clutch may be on the way out as it's been abused pretty bad. But dont hear any slip. Weird.

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    Nvm - Just read your update about the clutch, another huge possibility.
    Last edited by Ortiz; 1 Week Ago at 05:59 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cesar View Post
    Put factory intake mani back on
    Factory vvt

    Made 380 rwhp

    No blow by, no misfiring.

    All plugs are perfect.

    At this point we are guessing clutch may be on the way out as it's been abused pretty bad. But dont hear any slip. Weird.
    Just datalog engine rpm, and mph, should correlate nicely, if you see rpm rising faster than driveshaft, then clutch is slipping.