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Thread: pilot enabled warm up

  1. #1
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    pilot enabled warm up

    I would like to set my pilot event to be active during warm up but then to disable once I reach 150F, can i just use my ECT Adder, zero Coeff A and set my Coeff B at 150F to be 0. I am still trying to get an understanding on how this works exactly. If I zero my main air density tables but leave my ECT Adder it will still command fuel for my pilot I believe. Let me know what you guys suggest I do.
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  2. #2
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    Yes you can use the ECT correction table to have pilot enabled during lower ECT. Be careful with the multipliers. From what I recall on the 3rd gen 5.9 it?s not a straight multiplication of the value in correction table. A multiply factor of of 1 will take whatever value is in the correction table for the value you set it to but a multiply factor of 3 isn?t the value in correction table times 3, it?s much higher, at least when I was testing the boost correction table that?s how it worked. With the boost correction table it?s only used if the end result is a greater value than what is set in the main table being used. With your table you want to use I can?t remember if it?s used if the end result is lower or higher when it gets used

  3. #3
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    That sounds very confusing lol...So to get it so it pulls pilot event after 150F do I set it up that way or do I leave everything normal and almost do the opposite for the multiplier and leave everything up to 150F zero and change the adder table to be subtracting everything in the main.

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    The adder table doesn?t subtract from the main that I have ever seen, it uses the correction table. The correction tables aren?t always used, they are only used under certain conditions. For example on my 2012, the pilot timing correction table uses which ever provides the greatest amount of timing, if at a given ECT and IMT the result of the multiplier and the cells to be used in the correction table are greater than what it would be if it used the same cells in the main table being used it would use the correction table and ignore the main table. I could change the cells to be used in the main table to whatever I want and it won?t make a difference until it exceeds the timing output from the correction table and the multiplier being used, then it would ignore the multiplier and correction table as use the values in the main table being used. If I don?t want it to use the correction table at all I set the multipliers to zero.

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    Somehow I think I figured it out (I think). I left everything the same but in the ECT and ECT x IAT correction multiplier at 150F to 0. I logged it and at the start of my log it was with a pilot and ended with non even though the temperatures were a little off but it worked in theory.

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    Remember the ecm does a bilinear interpolation between cells. So from 150* up it should be zero and in the next row or column over from 150 it will start to drop to zero. Log your IMT and see if it lines up more with your IMT. Those temperatures are always higher and Cummins software says IMT, not IAT.

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    HP Tuners is the only software that has it labeled as IAT used. Warp, UDC, EFI Live, Cummins all have it labeled as IMT used

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Remember the ecm does a bilinear interpolation between cells. So from 150* up it should be zero and in the next row or column over from 150 it will start to drop to zero. Log your IMT and see if it lines up more with your IMT. Those temperatures are always higher and Cummins software says IMT, not IAT.
    Where is the pid for IMT? Also yeah I understand that but pilot was down to zero by about 130F, from what I hear there is a threshold that once it goes below it just doesnt open the injector at all. What can I read up on to understand correction tables more because it sounds like all ecms have their own way of doing it I guess.

    What I understand is that if it says 1 in the multiplier it is just like 1x and if it says 1.1 it is just 10% over right? And 0 is just disabled? That whole 1 = x3 confused me

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    When I did my testing on the boost correction for timing I had found that in order for that table to come into play the result correction timing had to be higher than what it would be in the main table being used. I set it so main table timing in a specific area was 0 degrees and in the correction table it was 4 degrees with a multiplier of 1. Hit that area and got 4 degrees, as I turned the multiplier up .1 at a time, I noticed it wasn?t following 4x1.5 for a total of 6 degrees. When I tried a multiplier of 3, as soon as I hit that spot where it switches over to the correction table it jumped to over 40 degrees in timing.

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    In that boost correction table the multiplier can go from -5 to 5 if I remember correctly. The negative with reduce timing of course, until your timing in the main table being used becomes the greater of the two. Not all correction tables behave the same. That?s what I observed anyways
    Last edited by Jim P; 12-21-2018 at 09:36 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    The adder table doesn?t subtract from the main that I have ever seen, it uses the correction table. The correction tables aren?t always used, they are only used under certain conditions. For example on my 2012, the pilot timing correction table uses which ever provides the greatest amount of timing, if at a given ECT and IMT the result of the multiplier and the cells to be used in the correction table are greater than what it would be if it used the same cells in the main table being used it would use the correction table and ignore the main table. I could change the cells to be used in the main table to whatever I want and it won?t make a difference until it exceeds the timing output from the correction table and the multiplier being used, then it would ignore the multiplier and correction table as use the values in the main table being used. If I don?t want it to use the correction table at all I set the multipliers to zero.
    Thanks for sharing that information. I thought the correction tables worked by adding the ECT values to the main table. How did you figure this out? I have found on my 2010 that many of scanning parameters do not function.
    2019 CCSB Bighorn - Excited HP Tuners finally supported Cummins CM2350&2450 platforms

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    yeah I thought the same as jfreemanak, unless that is just how the adder tables work and the timing table is completely different. I still dont get how it goes from a multiplier of 3 and gets 40* from 4 like what is the formula for setting them properly. Either way I just need to play around with the correction tables a little bit more.

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    Live tuning, playing and editing, seeing what happens. On my 2012 the pilot timing ECT correction table is a little different. Set the multipliers to 1 and it allowed me to adjust pilot timing on the main table I?m using and not have to keep bouncing between the correction table and the main table. I?ll have to go back and look at what I had to set the correction tables to to get it so I don?t have to bounce back and forth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bushmin View Post
    yeah I thought the same as jfreemanak, unless that is just how the adder tables work and the timing table is completely different. I still dont get how it goes from a multiplier of 3 and gets 40* from 4 like what is the formula for setting them properly. Either way I just need to play around with the correction tables a little bit more.
    I do not believe the multiplier tables work the way one would think they should work. Correction tables don?t work the way one thinks the should work either. Without seeing the algorithms it?s down to experimenting with the different tables, make changes and see what happens. I can?t explain why I got 40 degrees with timing of 4 and a multiplier of 3. But that is what happened. I found it did not apply a straight multiplication to what I had in the table. This was on a 2005.
    Last edited by Jim P; 12-22-2018 at 01:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    I do not believe the multiplier tables work the way one would think they should work. Correction tables don?t work the way one thinks the should work either. Without seeing the algorithms it?s down to experimenting with the different tables, make changes and see what happens. I can?t explain why I got 40 degrees with timing of 4 and a multiplier of 3. But that is what happened. I found it did not apply a straight multiplication to what I had in the table. This was on a 2005.
    hmm yeah it definetly takes experimentation

  16. #16
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    Everything works as planned but for some reason it surges almost like a lope. Not sure if it is doing something from the correction table or if its because I have so much timing at idle or maybe because my pw might be messed up when I tried to increase it to compensate. Not really sure but if you look at my fuel rate at about 00:00:41.000 it starts get fuzzy and changes drastically.

    single_injection_5_surging.hpl

  17. #17
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    Did you ever get it straightened out?

    Im trying to accomplish the same thing on my 04.5. I zeroed out the density tables for pilot and zeroed out all the adder and coeff tables except for ECT and Cranking. Now my truck does the opposite of what im trying to accomplish. It tries to start with no pilot and starts really hard, then it clears up and runs fine except pilot doesnt turn off at 150* ECT

    I attached my tune and 2 logs, the first log is of the startup and the second log is when it hits 150*

  18. #18
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    Ive ran a single injection tune with every pilot table zeroed out and it runs great it just doesnt cold start very well. So im trying to allow pilot event during cold start and warm up

  19. #19
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    I zeroed out the Pilot PW table on this one. Started fine but the truck was already over 150* so im going to let it cool back down and see if I still have pilot for warm up.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbreierair View Post
    I zeroed out the Pilot PW table on this one. Started fine but the truck was already over 150* so im going to let it cool back down and see if I still have pilot for warm up.
    If you zero out pilot pw it will not work at all. Your pikot pw controls your pilot injection. What you want to do is zero your pilot correction table past 150* ect. I did it with sone playing around. Take a look at my attached file in the older posts and look at the correction in pilot fueling