Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Stock 2013 ZL1 with 6-8 degrees of KR.

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233

    Stock 2013 ZL1 with 6-8 degrees of KR.

    A friend just picked up a 2013 ZL1 from Carmax. It has 19k miles on it. He said it felt down on power, so I put the scanner on it and saw it was pulling 26.6% STFT, looked as if LTFT were disabled, both banks 0.0%. I pulled his tune, and it appears to have been tuned for bolt-ons. I downloaded a 2013 ZL1 manual tune file from the HPT repository, and put all modified tables back to stock, including all the DTC's. Flashed the car and fuel trims look better, within 5%. Took it for a spin, but now I'm seeing ALOT of KR. Everytime I lean on the throttle (75-100%) I get 6-8* of KR and it pulls alot of timing.

    I suggested he get some Octane booster to rule out poor fuel. Very possible some idiot put 87 in the tank. However there was no KR running the Modified tune...Can you tell if they tuned out KR? I am also concerned why I'm only seeing 7.5psi of boost pressure. I thought it was supposed to be 9.

    This file is the modified tune for bolt ons, I think.
    Pete ZL1.hpt
    This file is after I returned all tables to stock.
    Pete ZL1 Back to Stock.hpt
    Log from modifed tune, no KR
    with mod tune no knock 8psi.hpl
    Stock tune, lots of KR
    6degreesKR.hpl
    2011 Camaro SS
    Thompson Motorsports Dart 427
    ESS Tuning G4 Supercharger 1158whp/1017wtq
    DSX Tuning stuff

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Boost Basic.Layout.xml
    I'm not sure if you need my layout to see my log files. I'm normally setup for a boosted LS3, and just used all my previous channels to log this ZL1. I heard the ZL1 has 2 iat sensors? What is that channel called?
    2011 Camaro SS
    Thompson Motorsports Dart 427
    ESS Tuning G4 Supercharger 1158whp/1017wtq
    DSX Tuning stuff

  3. #3
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    The modified tune has the low octane table the same as the high octane table. Not good for help with KR.
    7.5 psi is quite normal for a stock ZL1. It's not uncommon for a stock ZL1 to have quite a bit of kr. Nothing unusual there. Make sure to run 93 next fill up. The maf curve on the "modified" tune looks a bit tall on fueling for bolt ons. Hence the pulling of 26.6 STFT to the max. It wasn't a properly tuned maf curve. No reason to disable LTFT in it's current form.

    RPS Twin Carbon Clutch
    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper

  4. #4
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    Try this for channels. Intake Air Temp 2 is the iat sensor in the blower

    E67 Supercharged M6.Channels.xml
    Last edited by ABADZL1; 12-28-2018 at 07:41 AM.

    RPS Twin Carbon Clutch
    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by ABADZL1 View Post
    The modified tune has the low octane table the same as the high octane table. Not good for help with KR.
    7.5 psi is quite normal for a stock ZL1. It's not uncommon for a stock ZL1 to have quite a bit of kr. Nothing unusual there. Make sure to run 93 next fill up. The maf curve on the "modified" tune looks a bit tall on fueling for bolt ons. Hence the pulling of 26.6 STFT to the max. It wasn't a properly tuned maf curve. No reason to disable LTFT in it's current form.
    Thanks for looking. Its good to know that the boost is on par. Owner was worried about the blower recalls.

    All the changes have been reverted to stock, including enabling all fuel trims.

    Visual inspection shows they likely had headers and exhaust, the intake was loose at the throttle body, and you're saying the MAF was adding alot of fuel. If you had to guess, what modifications do you think were done to this car before it was dropped off at Carmax? We're inside the 3 day return window and are thinking about taking the car back.
    2011 Camaro SS
    Thompson Motorsports Dart 427
    ESS Tuning G4 Supercharger 1158whp/1017wtq
    DSX Tuning stuff

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    328
    Log kr as well as burst kr, see which one is registering. Burst kr is predictive and activates with sudden pedal slams, it doesn’t mean there is actual knock registering. It is good to have some in place, though some people reduce it a bit.

  7. #7
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    It looks to me like a header only tune. (no cats). They probably just put the stock stuff back on and didn't take it back to the tuner for a stock or near stock re-tune. They took the cheap way out. I wouldn't take it back if it's running good without any issues. The LSA is a pretty solid motor. Mod away and enjoy it...........

    RPS Twin Carbon Clutch
    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    44
    A quick look at the back to stock file and I'm seeing the enrichment rate set too low.
    Engine > Fuel > Power Enrich > Enrichment Rate

    I think stock is 1.00 for both which is what the tune that came on the car was set to but, they're set to 0.020/0.025 in the back to stock tune. You're probably not getting enough fuel and hence the KR.
    2019 Corvette Grand Sport Black

    2018 Camaro SS Bright Yellow

  9. #9
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    Stock is .0200/0.0250

    RPS Twin Carbon Clutch
    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    328
    Forgot to add, if you log total kr and burst kr, you can then create a user defined parameter of (kr - burst kr) and graph it with the same row/column headers as your spark table to see where it is occurring, and use copy/paste special to pull spark from your high octane table easily. Of course after you are sure of the fuel. I would guess the previous owner nor the dealer let it go with much in the tank, though, whatever octane it was.

  11. #11
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by ABADZL1 View Post
    Stock is .0200/0.0250
    I apologize, the title said 2013 but, my eyes saw 2018 ZL1 which are 1.0 in the stock tunes that I've pulled. I guess I'm not fully awake yet.
    2019 Corvette Grand Sport Black

    2018 Camaro SS Bright Yellow

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by ABADZL1 View Post
    It looks to me like a header only tune. (no cats). They probably just put the stock stuff back on and didn't take it back to the tuner for a stock or near stock re-tune. They took the cheap way out. I wouldn't take it back if it's running good without any issues. The LSA is a pretty solid motor. Mod away and enjoy it...........
    Oh header only? I thought you meant the MAF was tuned for major modifications.

    The problem is, its not running strong. It wouldnt break them loose in the rain last night. Its down on power.

    The fact that LTFTs were disabled bothers me. I?m not a tuner, but that just seems like BS.

  13. #13
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    The maf numbers were a lot higher than a stock tune and the cat stuff was all disabled including all the o2 sensors Dtc's. Cant tell for sure what other mods may have been in place.

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by ABADZL1 View Post
    The maf numbers were a lot higher than a stock tune and the cat stuff was all disabled including all the o2 sensors Dtc's. Cant tell for sure what other mods may have been in place.
    10-4.

    Anyone know why Knock didnt register on the modified tune? I dont see the sensors desensitized.

    Are IATs of 150+ normal?

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by justhereforinfo View Post
    10-4.

    Anyone know why Knock didnt register on the modified tune? I dont see the sensors desensitized.

    Are IATs of 150+ normal?
    Any suggestions for troubleshooting? Ive seen several posts saying stock boost is 9/9.5. How can I make sure the bypass valve isnt stuck open?

  16. #16
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    189
    Your cylinder airmass is way different from the modified log to the stock log you posted. Cylinder airmass determines what row of spark you are in. It was different because of the maf scaling difference between both tunes. This may explain why you didnt have any kr on one log because the timing may not have been the same between both tables beacause G/Cyl difference. Dumping more fuel in on the modified tune is probably helping to quench the kr as well.

    Lingenfelter sells a bypass valve adjustment tool. Or you can adjust the set screw yourself. The valve should be adjusted just until it seats.
    You are @ 1.80 g/cyl on one log and 1.21 on the stock log

    RPS Twin Carbon Clutch
    Kook's Headers
    Ported Supercharger
    Cold Air Inductions cai
    ID850's
    GPTuning 2.5 Cam
    9.1 Lower 2.5 Upper

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    I hate a thread without a conclusion, so here it is.

    We tore into it today. The plugs were orange and had oil on them, so we replaced with NGK TR6IX. The mid pipe was not pushed in all the way, so we fixed that. We adjusted the bypass valve, but logs still show 7.5psi. But most importantly, we added octane booster, and filled up with good 93 (1/2 tank) .

    No more knock. 0.0.

    Timing is back to 24 degrees when IATs allow. All is good.

    We did notice that stop and go traffic produces higher after blower temps, and does pull some timing.

    after plugs.hpl

    We've concluded, like many have suggested, that the LSA would greatly benefit from a good catch can, and a heat exchanger upgrade.

    Thanks for pointing us in the right direction. She's definitely a keeper! (although it feels slow to me, ha)
    2011 Camaro SS
    Thompson Motorsports Dart 427
    ESS Tuning G4 Supercharger 1158whp/1017wtq
    DSX Tuning stuff

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    974
    where's the latest file?

    have you thought about tweaking the file for better results?

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by lukearmstrong1990 View Post
    where's the latest file?

    have you thought about tweaking the file for better results?
    The latest file is above. Owner wants it stock for now.

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    289
    On a stock car, I would look to ensure you don't have any air in the supercharger heat exchanger circuit, and make sure the pump is working. 150+ is high (unless you're doing a lot of back-to-back WOT pulls). On pull, you probably shouldn't see more than 30-40 degrees over IAT1. If you keep repeating WOT pulls, then yeah, 150+ is probably gonna happen.