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Thread: some help with the fuel trims

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    389

    some help with the fuel trims

    the car has a jlt intake, airforce manifold, no cats, lt headers and x pipe, and i get system too lean and system too rich codes at the same time

    so i took a long drive with a lot of traffic and a lot of stop and go, in this drive the car was MAF only, at the beginning of the drive i had very big positive fuel trims, then it gradually went to the opposite and started having very big negative fuel trims.

    So is there some kind of temperature compensation that i should be looking at?

    in that drive i was running maf only, no dfco and no COT
    flexairforcetune4.63.hpt

    i tried attaching the log but apparently the file is too big

  2. #2
    First thing to check is to be absolutely sure you do not have any leaks with your exhaust where unmetered air could get to the o2 sensors from outside. If exhaust is good and sealed/installed properly without leaks also verify the MSD intake manifold is properly "clamshelled" together. The manual has a specific pattern to tighten the bolts so it seals up without the gap that some are getting at the rear corner. ALSO, make sure you REMOVED the rubber insulation piece that was under the stock manifold when you installed the MSD. It causes the MSD to not seal properly on the head ports. Once all possible unmetered air leaks are ruled out proceed with below:



    Are you histograming LTFT error vs MAF Hz? If so, do the below

    Since car is already in MAF only mode, But you need to disable PE enrichment also. Change your PE throttle% to 100% across the board to keep it out of PE mode( DO NOT GO WOT!!! until you change it back to previous values!!) Do a log. Take car to an area with long straight to do the test. Stop car and start logging. In VCM scanner reset Long term fuel trims under Vehicle Controls and Special Functions button. Log car at idle for 2mins. Start to drive.. in 3rd gear or 4th(depending on how fast you are going at 4000rpm) do the following:

    1) Slowly bring rpms up to 2000rpm rolling *light throttle* wait 5seconds then slowly increase to 2500rpm hold 5secs. repeat until you reach 4000rpm and hold for 5secs. accellerating slowly on each 500rpm jump.

    2)Immediately slow down to 2000rpm again in the same gear... same log.. dont stop log and do the same 500rpm increments with a little more throttle this time than before.

    3)Immediately slow down to 2000rpm again and in the same gear.. same log do the same 500rpm increments with more throttle this time but no more than 50% throttle.

    After third test stop the log. You will use the histogram to view the AVERAGE error. Highlight the whole histogram values from left to right and copy to clipboard(MAF hz above 5000hz range should have zero for the values since you don't it that high part throttle)

    Go into your tune under MAF Curve and highlight the whole table left to right then right click. In the dropdown box choose Paste Special and Multiply by %(Can do half% for smaller changes too). This should take the negative and positive error from the histogram and correct each cooresponding hz location on your curve accordingly up or down by percent error. Smooth any areas that may need it.

    Save as a new file and load tune to the car. Go out and do the test again the same exact way. You want to continue to make adjustments until your LTFT error is +/- 5% or better.

    Once you get your error to within +/- 5% and are happy with the adjustments *****BE SURE TO CHANGE PE THROTTLE% BACK TO PREVIOUS VALUES!!!!!******

    I also recommend NOT running MAF only mode. Change that back to MAF/VVE operation at some point also.

    This is just to correct part throttle LTFT error. To correct maf transfer error for WOT you need to have a wideband o2 sensor and will histogram AFR commanded vs Wideband actual and make changes the same way you did with part throttle but to the WOT hz areas of the curve.


    And just a note... JLT has been known in the Mustang world to SUCK at seaeling properly at the MAF sensor mounting point causing HUGE headaches for tuners. Make sure the sensor is properly mounted and sealing. Never was a fan of JLT on my Mustang. I used PMAS. On my C7 Grand Sport I have the Halltech CAI. If you are in a Camaro, the Rotofab dry filter CAI seems to have great results.


    Probably long winded but bored in bed waiting for my sleep meds to kick in. If they had kicked in by now I would have typed something about Bob the 3 headed Goat telling me jokes.
    Last edited by Poppacapp; 12-31-2018 at 03:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,134
    MAF curve isn't smooth. Don't focus only on copy and pasting errors but also be careful to keep it smooth. Bunch of spots it increases and decreases and this just isn't realistic.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppacapp View Post
    First thing to check is to be absolutely sure you do not have any leaks with your exhaust where unmetered air could get to the o2 sensors from outside. If exhaust is good and sealed/installed properly without leaks also verify the MSD intake manifold is properly "clamshelled" together. The manual has a specific pattern to tighten the bolts so it seals up without the gap that some are getting at the rear corner. ALSO, make sure you REMOVED the rubber insulation piece that was under the stock manifold when you installed the MSD. It causes the MSD to not seal properly on the head ports. Once all possible unmetered air leaks are ruled out proceed with below:



    Are you histograming LTFT error vs MAF Hz? If so, do the below

    Since car is already in MAF only mode, But you need to disable PE enrichment also. Change your PE throttle% to 100% across the board to keep it out of PE mode( DO NOT GO WOT!!! until you change it back to previous values!!) Do a log. Take car to an area with long straight to do the test. Stop car and start logging. In VCM scanner reset Long term fuel trims under Vehicle Controls and Special Functions button. Log car at idle for 2mins. Start to drive.. in 3rd gear or 4th(depending on how fast you are going at 4000rpm) do the following:

    1) Slowly bring rpms up to 2000rpm rolling *light throttle* wait 5seconds then slowly increase to 2500rpm hold 5secs. repeat until you reach 4000rpm and hold for 5secs. accellerating slowly on each 500rpm jump.

    2)Immediately slow down to 2000rpm again in the same gear... same log.. dont stop log and do the same 500rpm increments with a little more throttle this time than before.

    3)Immediately slow down to 2000rpm again and in the same gear.. same log do the same 500rpm increments with more throttle this time but no more than 50% throttle.

    After third test stop the log. You will use the histogram to view the AVERAGE error. Highlight the whole histogram values from left to right and copy to clipboard(MAF hz above 5000hz range should have zero for the values since you don't it that high part throttle)

    Go into your tune under MAF Curve and highlight the whole table left to right then right click. In the dropdown box choose Paste Special and Multiply by %(Can do half% for smaller changes too). This should take the negative and positive error from the histogram and correct each cooresponding hz location on your curve accordingly up or down by percent error. Smooth any areas that may need it.

    Save as a new file and load tune to the car. Go out and do the test again the same exact way. You want to continue to make adjustments until your LTFT error is +/- 5% or better.

    Once you get your error to within +/- 5% and are happy with the adjustments *****BE SURE TO CHANGE PE THROTTLE% BACK TO PREVIOUS VALUES!!!!!******

    I also recommend NOT running MAF only mode. Change that back to MAF/VVE operation at some point also.

    This is just to correct part throttle LTFT error. To correct maf transfer error for WOT you need to have a wideband o2 sensor and will histogram AFR commanded vs Wideband actual and make changes the same way you did with part throttle but to the WOT hz areas of the curve.


    And just a note... JLT has been known in the Mustang world to SUCK at seaeling properly at the MAF sensor mounting point causing HUGE headaches for tuners. Make sure the sensor is properly mounted and sealing. Never was a fan of JLT on my Mustang. I used PMAS. On my C7 Grand Sport I have the Halltech CAI. If you are in a Camaro, the Rotofab dry filter CAI seems to have great results.


    Probably long winded but bored in bed waiting for my sleep meds to kick in. If they had kicked in by now I would have typed something about Bob the 3 headed Goat telling me jokes.
    the log i couldnt upload was a 45 min traffic drive, so its only part throttle, i have done the process you describe 3 times already as the car is tuned now the CEL comes and goes randomly

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/18eoxsgnk...mKhHM5hBa?dl=0

    lets see if this works and you see the log

  5. #5
    Can you list the CEL codes you are getting and also verify which tune you are using. Are you using the flexfueltune 5 now? I was able to look at Streetlog1.. the 11.3mb file. Looks like you are Non US and have that nice non-ethanol fuel(3.1% reported). I see you setup flex fuel to run with sensor etc.

    Also one item I noticed and am not sure needs to be changed is the O2 Select, and O2 Heater select under Fuel/O2 Sensors tab. Reset those values to stock. I am unsure those need to be changed.

    I have a feeling your CEL is coming from not having the DTC's disabled for the rear o2 sensors.
    Most disable the rear O2 sensors via the Engine Diagnostics/DTC tab. You will need to scroll slowly through the DTCs list and for anything related to B1S2 and B2S2 you need to turn off the MILby unchecking the box, and changing the MIL to No error reported instead of MIL on 2nd or first occurance. There are quite a few of the B1S2 and B2S2 DTCs. make sure to get the ones for the heaters for the rear o2s. Be careful not to mess with any of the DTCs for B1S1 and B2S1.

    Continue working on getting your trims +/- 5% on average and smooth the parts of the curve that have bumps and dips and let me know the actual codes you are seeing.

  6. #6
    Be sure to work your way all the way to the bottom the the DTC list.. as shown in this screenshot there are DTCs way down the list that need to be changed also. Any of the Heater circuit stuff for Banks 1 and 2 Sensor 2 change too.

    Screenshot 2019-01-04 04.05.00.png

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    389
    Ok, took the car for a drive again, turned the rear o2 back on, put it back on ve+MAF, corrected the maf curve so it woulnt have a number followed by a smaller number and got the cel again, it didnt do it o the logged ride, it did it the next day.

    flexairforcetune6.1.hpt
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/18eoxsgnk...mKhHM5hBa?dl=0 this is the log

    the codes im getting are:
    p0171 - system too lean (bank1) (pending, current old, history)
    p0174 - system too lean (bank 2) (pending, current, old, history)


    The thing is, it never goes too lean on the whole log, i do see the o2 spike whenever the car comes to a stop, but it goes negative

  8. #8
    Not sure which log in the folder is the correct one. I get the whole folder when clicking dropbox link. Rename the latest log file with a date or something