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Thread: Pentastar 3.6 VVT Tables

  1. #1
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    Pentastar 3.6 VVT Tables

    FIRST LOG CAM CHANGES.hpl
    injector tables setup CAM TIMING change.hpt

    ive been digging into the vvt cam tables a bunch lately and have a pretty good understanding of what each tables does for the most part. but 2 things I cannot figure out from looking at logs and comparing them to what my tune is commanding is 1. Where is the PCM getting its values for cam timing at idle. 2. what is scavenging mode? I've looked an looked and cannot find any kind of description as far as what scavenging mode is or when the PCM would use the table. thanks in advance for any kind of help or insight. just trying to get a reasoning for what I'm seeing.
    Last edited by Scottyb_288; 12-31-2018 at 11:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hemituna is well versed in the 3.6 stuff. Hopefully he will chime in.

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    as long as someone can give me reason for whats going on ill be satisfied. Lol. but I have noticed from reading on here is very good when it comes to the pentastar stuff and just dodge stuff in general.
    Last edited by Scottyb_288; 01-01-2019 at 06:17 PM.

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    On Pentastars at idle (or more correctly 0 speed) the intake cam is fully retarded and the exhaust cam is fully advanced.
    This gives minimal overlap and so idles/runs clean and smooth.
    You can rev the engine all you like and cams won't move, until you drive off and the pcm registers some speed.
    Then it only uses the P/T cam tables.
    Generally they dont use any other tables at all including WOT table.
    I have never seen an instance in a log where they use scavenge table etc.
    But I do set them all to the same values as P/T tables anyways incase one day it does go there.
    Don't be scared to move the cams around as they are miles away from best performance with stock settings.
    Last edited by Hemituna; 01-02-2019 at 10:55 PM.

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    Everything you said makes 110% perfect sense with what im seeing in the logs except I dont feel like intake cam timing is retarded at idle on mine(129*). Every log i have of this thing at idle is 129* intake and 115-117 exhaust at idle. Correct me if im wrong but i believe thats close to full advance on both(dont have the tune right in front of me im on my phone). If you have a minute take a peek at the log and tune above tell me if Im going the right direction or have the right thought process with how im swinging the cams. Ive run into a bit of an issue advancing the ignition cam(where its retarded to 72* from factory) as its now causing the transmission to kind of ?hunt? between 2nd and 3rd gear because its used to immediately upshiting to 3rd at that point when the intake cam retards i assume but unfortunately for me my application has no trans tuning available(62TE).

    Again thank you for your time and insight its 100% appreciated.

  6. #6
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    Actually the 129 on the intake is full retard, just as 115ish on exhaust is full advance.
    Bigger LC numbers on intake is retarding the cam
    Bigger LC numbers on exhaust is advancing the cam
    When you work out the numbers, you will find these things run a heap of overlap stock.
    It is to create an egr effect for emissions....not so good for performance.

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    No kidding? Holy crap! Lol. Well that alone is a massive help on what direction to go with cam timing. With that being said do you find yourself having to raise the cam timing maximum/minimum numbers in this case? Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by Scottyb_288; 01-03-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #8
    I use this for reference tuning Pentastars. I have a hard time keeping it straight lol


    Cam timing reference.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyb_288 View Post
    No kidding? Holy crap! Lol. Well that alone is a massive help on what direction to go with cam timing. With that being said do you find yourself having to raise the cam timing maximum/minimum numbers in this case? Thanks for your help!
    Small numbers are evil... lol
    My blower tunes run intake @ 115 - 130. Exhaust 115
    NA is intake around 105 - 130. Exhaust 115-105
    Assuming you have intake, exhaust upgrades etc.
    Last edited by Hemituna; 01-10-2019 at 02:28 AM.

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    Fair enough. I appreciate all the help. Thank you

  11. #11
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    Would there be any value in adjusting the VVT Cams on a 3.2L Pentastar
    Mods are
    Ported TB
    Ported Lower Intake Manifold
    Custom Catback Exhaust

  12. #12
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    If the cam timing tables look anything like they do in the 3.6, absolutely. Lol

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    Had a discussion with my tuner, and met up and did a few pulls with some adjustments to the Cams, a nice little boost up top and a little bit more jam down low, sadly I don't understand enough about tuning to know exactly what was changed

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    Id say post the file but being that someone else tuned it they may not be up for you releasing it to the public. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyb_288 View Post
    Id say post the file but being that someone else tuned it they may not be up for you releasing it to the public. Lol
    Can't divulge the secret sauce, it took a bit of playing to get the right balance

    Doesn't show much but here is a 3.2L Pentastar screaming

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE2fRjW27f0

    4600lbs Jeep Cherokee its a wee bit heavy

  16. #16
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    Oh I wasnt meaning post it to copy it lol. I was meaning for someone more experienced than myself(Hemituna or duster360) to maybe clarify yay or nay if it was headed in the right direction. But, if you can feel how much better it runs id say proof is in the puddin! The journey im doing feels 99% better than stock. Its not 100% because HPtuners doesnt support the trans and I hate the way these shitbox 62TE?s shift. Lol

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyb_288 View Post
    Oh I wasnt meaning post it to copy it lol. I was meaning for someone more experienced than myself(Hemituna or duster360) to maybe clarify yay or nay if it was headed in the right direction. But, if you can feel how much better it runs id say proof is in the puddin! The journey im doing feels 99% better than stock. Its not 100% because HPtuners doesnt support the trans and I hate the way these shitbox 62TE?s shift. Lol
    Related to trans tuning. HP Tuners states they support the ZF 9 speed. So I bought 4 credits and tried to get a read and it won't, through 4 Betas it still isn't supported. I have faith that later this year they will support it. The trans is decent but I need to raise the shift points now for it to be perfect

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler-98-W68 View Post
    Related to trans tuning. HP Tuners states they support the ZF 9 speed. So I bought 4 credits and tried to get a read and it won't, through 4 Betas it still isn't supported. I have faith that later this year they will support it. The trans is decent but I need to raise the shift points now for it to be perfect
    I thought credits were only needed for writing to a controller not reading from it?

  19. #19
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    Is that TCM separate from the PCM? You don't have to send it off and have it unlocked do you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@HAP View Post
    Is that TCM separate from the PCM? You don't have to send it off and have it unlocked do you?
    Correct it doesn't require credits to read, but HP Tuners won't read the factory TCM file since they don't have a definition file for it yet, I should have been more clear.