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Thread: 2016 Veloster Turbo

  1. #1

    2016 Veloster Turbo

    Currently working with the team right now. It seems that we are going to have issues reading them, from what I am assuming is Hyundai using several different versions of PCM hardware. As soon as it is resolved, I will be posting the stock tune. I did get a stock datalog today.
    Veloster stock.hpl

  2. #2
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    The stock tunes vary a bit based on year and transmission in the VT. In 13 they ran much more unsafe tune than most current ones. Also many tune revisions by hyundai over time in the VT as well as hard part changes.

    When getting datalog keep in mind the way this ECU works it is very sensitive to every parameter and the log on the same tune can vary quite a bit based on those parameters. If parameters are kept the same the log and dyno results tend to be within 1-2% or so.

    Fyi, I have tuned 13-17 VT in auto, manual, and DCT already. Looking to use the HPTuners setup but really want to know its capabilities and maps available first before purchasing.

  3. #3
    I'm assuming they have knock advance ability, as spark doesnt follow the base spark table much at all, especially in the upper rpm area. Should be commanding about 13 degrees at 178% load at 6000 rpm, and the car is commanding 16.5 degrees. I have not found any other modifiers for spark at all.

  4. #4
    I should reiterate...there are plenty of modifiers, but they all are about pulling timing. The car is adding to base spark up top. It follows the table pretty closely up to about 5200 rpm, then it flies off into a low earth orbit.

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    Many maps that retard/advance ignition and cam timing on both cams based on many parameters, conditions, and other maps in general.

    That ignition timing and load at that rpm is typical for a pull on a stock tune with decent temps and conditions on 93 fuel.

  6. #6
    These are the only spark tables we have available at the current time. I am assuming that boost is actually controlled by a torque request, and that max limits need to be raised as to not hit the limiters. It seems relatively similar to Ford ecoboost tuning in many aspects...but we will soon find out.
    Spark.png
    Knock.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    These are the only spark tables we have available at the current time. I am assuming that boost is actually controlled by a torque request, and that max limits need to be raised as to not hit the limiters. It seems relatively similar to Ford ecoboost tuning in many aspects...but we will soon find out.
    Spark.png
    Knock.png
    Yes, way more maps related to spark than that in there. And honestly you do not have to touch many of the spark maps to make good power gains on these cars.

    Load based ECU. Boost does not equal power in this ECU at all. There are hard and soft limiter maps for boost and load and even over boost/load maps that go off other maps. Then function monitoring maps that'll still neuter things as well. Also pressure ratio maps to control boost. You'll need that one for sure or you will not see much over 20 psi max in mod rpms or much over 16 psi at red line regardless what else you change. Having some of the model maps in the ECU that it uses to base calls off of would make some things a little easier.

  8. #8
    It isnt looking like I'll be able to raise boost any in that case. There isnt much at all in the way of limiters that yo can change. I'll send screen shots this evening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    It isnt looking like I'll be able to raise boost any in that case. There isnt much at all in the way of limiters that yo can change. I'll send screen shots this evening.
    You may be able to increase boost and power with what you have but not sure all the maps you have either to tell you 100%.

    On the 16 VT, peak boost is generally in the 4-5k rpm area at 16-18 psi and falls to 11-13 psi at 6.5k rpm. You mention 178% absolute load at 6k rpm, which is normal, and should be just shy of 13 psi. After 6k rpm it will drop off quickly.

    Once you tune these cars to 20+ psi on the stock turbo it really wakes them up. You can get 40+ whp and more than that on wtq on a tune alone on 93. Good bolt ons/supporting mods help as well. They have been taken +80-100 whp/wtq on stock turbo and motor with good bolt ons and supporting mods with 93 + meth. Highest I've taken one on the dyno was 260+/260+ on a dynojet in this form and peak whp was at only 19 psi. Have taken some higher on street tunes on stock and stock stuffed turbos with 93 + meth or E85/flex fuel blends just not verified on the rollers.

  10. #10
    What kind of ignition is safe for 93 and 20psi in the midrange and about 15-16psi up top? One thing about this car is that it peaks at 14.1psi st about 4800 and reports 189% load, and then at 6000 it is 178% load and about 10.6psi. That's with 50 degree iat's. I'm wanting to command about 230% load to get the car into the 250 ftlbs torque range. Am I headed in the right direction? Right now, I have spark starting at around 7 degrees in the 4500 rpm range and ramping up to about 10 degrees at 6500. I rescaled the base ignition table to 230% load. I put max map request to 20psi (34.5 psi absolute with our baro) and max requested tip to 35psi absolute just to be on the safe side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    What kind of ignition is safe for 93 and 20psi in the midrange and about 15-16psi up top? One thing about this car is that it peaks at 14.1psi st about 4800 and reports 189% load, and then at 6000 it is 178% load and about 10.6psi. That's with 50 degree iat's. I'm wanting to command about 230% load to get the car into the 250 ftlbs torque range. Am I headed in the right direction? Right now, I have spark starting at around 7 degrees in the 4500 rpm range and ramping up to about 10 degrees at 6500. I rescaled the base ignition table to 230% load. I put max map request to 20psi (34.5 psi absolute with our baro) and max requested tip to 35psi absolute just to be on the safe side.
    What's safe depends on mods on the car and conditions. That load curve sounds about right for the conditions. I've logged and tuned a 16 rally before. 230% load is good enough for that tq but very dependent on mods and conditions again. That timing is weak. Do not resale the maps. Do not set max psi that close to target or the car could shut down while say hard accel getting on the highway.

    I'm not even sure what all maps you have to give you best advice on how to go about what you're wanting to do. Nor do I know the mods and goals for the car. I'm a VT knowledge pool! ;-)

  12. #12
    I just want it safe to start. I want it to hit overboost if I am requesting too much load, once I get it at a good place I will put the boost limit up around 26psi so that it never reaches it unless there is a problem. It has an Elantra throttle body and muffler delete, he also has cut on the air box some. It's basically stock...he will be doing a catless downpipe before too long on it. It has colder plugs in it. I just don't want to get up into the 230 load range and scatter it, so that is why I took timing down so far. I like to start safe and work forward lol. This is my first swing at a hyundai. I have done subarus, hondas, pretty much every generation of Fords with efi, gm stuff from 98-up, dsm stuff, and several different stand alone systems (Holley, megasquirt, FastXfi, Aem..ect)...I like to start super conservative and work from there. Seeing as I dont have any prior experience, I am not willing to take a chance and sling some beefed up ignition numbers in there right off the bat lol. He daily drives the car, 93 octane, and just makes pulls on the street. He races in the 1/8 mile 2 ti 3 times a year just for fun. Doesnt want to set records, just have a fun daily.

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    Let me know the maps you have and screen shots if possible. How you go about the tune will vary based on what you have available.

    Fyi, I tuned a bone stock rally last year. It did 176/195 SAE dynojet. Did a basic tune nothing special adding 3-4 psi across the curve and it did 202/233. Stock base timing other than smoothing it out some and still safe. Base timing map is actually pretty safe on 93 with close to stock cars up to around 20 psi area. This is even with lambda changes to fueling. I like keeping cars with cats at or below 20 psi and catless keep to 22-23 psi. The OEM turbo is best kept to a max ~2.55 PR area especially up top. Keep in mind the OEM charge side on these cars have a lot of pressure drop in them, intake is very restrictive, and elevation plays a role as well.

  14. #14
    Ended up at 20psi peak at 4700 with about 9 degrees of timing, 17psi at 6400 with 12 degrees of timing. Thank you for all your input. The car really is night and day from the stock tune. Oh, also I am commanding a .85 lambda until about 3500, and tapering down to a .80 by 6000. I was a little iffy on running that lean, so I put it back to a .79 at 6000. The torque gain is insane on the car. No knock at all, it seems pretty happy. Hopefully I'm close and have it relatively safe. My Taurus Sho likes a .85 lambda the whole way, but I didnt want to run this one that lean.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    Ended up at 20psi peak at 4700 with about 9 degrees of timing, 17psi at 6400 with 12 degrees of timing. Thank you for all your input. The car really is night and day from the stock tune. Oh, also I am commanding a .85 lambda until about 3500, and tapering down to a .80 by 6000. I was a little iffy on running that lean, so I put it back to a .79 at 6000. The torque gain is insane on the car. No knock at all, it seems pretty happy. Hopefully I'm close and have it relatively safe. My Taurus Sho likes a .85 lambda the whole way, but I didnt want to run this one that lean.
    Most tuners for these run a smoother base timing map as the only change there and .77-.80 lambda from 3-3.5k to red line of 6.5k-7.5k rpm area. Some leave below that OEM and some richen it up. Using .85 lambda everything before 3.5k rpm is not needed at all per se and will cause a big mpg hit. Hopefully it made the commanded lambda as well. Being a load based ECU it will make the load and boost commanded and not fuel correctly if some maps are off.

    There is a jump in timing around 3k rpm and 5k rpm on them that need to be smoothed out and/or fuel be adjusted for to make them safer. Not sure if you posting base timing numbers or what the car logged at? Guessing what the car logged at from my experience.

    Critical on them is to make it richen up at lower throttle position and quicker than OEM tune as that's a joke on the OEM tunes.

    It has fuel maps that richen for high cat temps that can be adjusted as well but not sure if you have those? These will help in a racing scenario not to lose too much power.

    Not sure if you dyno or not but if so post numbers/charts even better. Also send me all maps and screenshots you have. Bringing it up to 20 psi at or near red line should give the car another 20 whp or so. 40+ whp gains from tune alone is not hard on these cars running 93 or better fuel. But also not sure if you have the maps needed to do so as limiters are there that may not let you go beyond that 20-21 psi mid range and 16-17 psi up top. Guessing at that boost you're near 230% load peak around 4.7k rpm and drop to around 210% around 6.4k rpm? Send me some stuff and I can help you make the owner kiss you! Lol!

    Also fyi, not sure how you set it up but needs to be setup to not spike boost upon WOT and do not go above 20-22 psi if near sea level before 3.5k-4k rpm. No spike is safer for the head bolts on these engines and boost lower before 3.5k-4k if near sea level to avoid compressor surge. I have a compressor map for the stock turbo if you need one. Also have map of compressor and turbine efficiency etc if you know how to read those.
    Last edited by trdtoy; 01-22-2019 at 10:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    I should reiterate...there are plenty of modifiers, but they all are about pulling timing. The car is adding to base spark up top. It follows the table pretty closely up to about 5200 rpm, then it flies off into a low earth orbit.
    All else the same, it pulls timing with higher boost and load. Since boost/load is peaking in that rpm range it follows the base timing map closer. After that it drops boost/load and up top typically alters timing approx .75?/psi change of boost on 93. You will see this trend if you tune this or other VT in the future.
    Last edited by trdtoy; 01-22-2019 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Gturbo View Post
    I just want it safe to start. I want it to hit overboost if I am requesting too much load, once I get it at a good place I will put the boost limit up around 26psi so that it never reaches it unless there is a problem. It has an Elantra throttle body and muffler delete, he also has cut on the air box some. It's basically stock...he will be doing a catless downpipe before too long on it. It has colder plugs in it. I just don't want to get up into the 230 load range and scatter it, so that is why I took timing down so far. I like to start safe and work forward lol. This is my first swing at a hyundai. I have done subarus, hondas, pretty much every generation of Fords with efi, gm stuff from 98-up, dsm stuff, and several different stand alone systems (Holley, megasquirt, FastXfi, Aem..ect)...I like to start super conservative and work from there. Seeing as I dont have any prior experience, I am not willing to take a chance and sling some beefed up ignition numbers in there right off the bat lol. He daily drives the car, 93 octane, and just makes pulls on the street. He races in the 1/8 mile 2 ti 3 times a year just for fun. Doesnt want to set records, just have a fun daily.
    I do not set protection maps that close to my target as they can cause dangerous scenarios. There are ways to protect it without doing so if you have the proper maps. Also the map sensor will not read over 22.x psi so anything over that in the map I'm thinking of will not protect it at all. If you have the proper maps you can tune these cars up to 28-29 psi with the right supporting mods(not on stock motor or turbo) while keeping boost steady and not spike etc. Many restrictions on this car so you cant take it but so high safely anyway. I hope he knows the proper bolt ons for the car for best results especially the plugs to run. Proper oil, oil filter, and OCI are also crucial. Catch cans or breather and PVC VTA are also critical on these. Do you know the plugs and gaps used? The DP he is getting? The DP if good will add ~15 whp if the tune allows and will also make boost spike harder. May or may not need a retune after mods depending on if tune setup right or not. Once he gets good intake, DP, exhaust or delete second cat, and good heat range 9 plug with proper gap, you can take it to 22-23 psi around 240% load on 93 with a good tune and it will be fine. And in the 250 whp area. At that point it really needs a better intercooler or better hot pipe and meth injection. But if this are done you need to pull power back a bit before those mods to make safe for the engine and the turbo. Limit on stock motor and turbo is around 260 area with good mods, tune and fuel. Head studs and a better turbo they're good to 320-340 whp area.
    Last edited by trdtoy; 01-22-2019 at 10:48 PM.

  18. #18
    We are at 580 ft elevation. It peaks at 250 load at 4800, and then drops to around 234 at 6400. I'm thinking about turning it down just a little. He has one step colder plugs gapped at .028. I can swing up the driver demand table and it will hold 20 up through 6400, I just don't know if it is safe to do so. Stock downpipe on the car for now. He did remove the baffle from the intercooler piping.

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    250% load and 20 psi peak do not add up. 250% load is around a 24 psi spike. Logger may not have caught the boost correctly but got the load spike. Not safe to have that spike there. 234% load an 17 psi is also not accurate. Is there a scaling to the psi that may be off? That load is safe there though on 93 with a good tune. 22-23 psi and 240% is safe on a good tune with 93 as long as no KR or knock. Stock DP and still catted I'd stick to 20 psi and 220-230% load. 220-230 whp is where the OEM DP and cats start making it a dangerous scenario.

    What plugs does he have? 1 step colder would be 9's but the plug design itself is crucial in these cars or they can fail. .028" is ok but .024" area is a little better.

    The res delete on the hot pipe helps flow some but not much.

    Do you have a dyno chart and/or .csv log file I can see?
    Last edited by trdtoy; 01-23-2019 at 06:48 PM.

  20. #20
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    I’m the owner of the car in question and it has the HKS M45XL plugs gapped to .028