I think you probably were too unclear to begin with. Doesn?t sound like you?re off track to me.
I think you probably were too unclear to begin with. Doesn?t sound like you?re off track to me.
"The guys who are tuning them are not rewiring anything. Its 100% tune based. I confirmed that much" Ummmmmm so explain to everyone what you meant here.Originally Posted by Speedtospare
Changing the wiring to match the f150 cams and injectors and then later on, changing back to match mustang cams and injectors. That is a shit ton of wiring.
Ton of money? So what is a ton of money? So if you have a problem with spinning less than 700HP. Tuning isn't your issue. You will have to spend what I assume is a Ton of money on suspension parts.
Make a Scramble button to run 20 psi on your bone stock F150 short block, LOL!!!!!! You will scramble some things alright. Your bone stock internals will become bone stock externals. 20psi, you better get ready to spend another ton of money.
You guys are wrong. You can change it. My car is living proof This is due to the crank have the same characteristics as the mustang crank. As an example you can not change the firing order on a voodoo engine even with cam swap due to the crank. I'm not going to arguing anymore. Im pretty much finished the build except for a bigger trans cooler and rest of the exhaust. There are plenty of guys out there running the mustang firing order on the f150 cams.
Once the boarder opens up and I get it tuned I will post some video of my impossible engine build lol.
Ummm, NO. You have no clue what you are doing. Which is why you are having someone else tune it for you.
I am ASE master tech. I build my own shit, I tune my own shit. I have worked as a dealer line tech for 15yrs.
So:F150 cams, F150 firing order, period. Yes, you can run it on a mustang pcm using the F150 firing order. Period. I don't care how you do it on the PCM side, but you are NOT running a mustang firing order until you swap the CAMS out.
Please take photos of shrapnel after you used your 20 psi scramble button.
Last edited by JuiceNA; 09-11-2020 at 12:04 PM.
He clearly has no idea how an engine operates.
Last edited by K44; 09-11-2020 at 02:34 PM.
Gen 1. Are same as mustang same firing order. Gen 2 and 3. U have too change cams
I hate to pile on after everyone already replied but I would like to point out that the entire reason in that video for changing firing order in the pcm and rewiring the injectors is to match the firing order of the cams. Firing order will always follow the cams, no amount of tech or tuning will get around that until we have camless engines.
Camless engines, I had that idea back in the 80's. I wanted to use solenoids. One for each valve.
My thought was to run the perfect amount of lift and duration for each RPM.
Camless engine? Doesn't/didn't F1 use pneumatic actuation at some point? So we already have camless tech.
But that also means your firing order is still tied to mechanicals of the engine. Your crankshaft design to be specific will now become the main factor in firing order. Think cross plane cranks.....
I did not want to add more confusion back in after we established firing order depends on cams. lol
I love being told I have no clue. So ... Master tech. Maybe you can explain why I'm wrong here.
Mustang firing order is
1548
6372
F150 firing order is
1372
6548
We swap the approperiate wiring as follows 3 to 5, 7 to 8, and 2 to 8. That changes the firing order from f150 to mustang and we don't physically change the cams. Is that not changing the firing order?!
Exactly. You are KEEPING the F150 firing order. You are rewiring the harness because the firing order for the mustang is different than the F150.
By making the wiring harness changes:
YOUR ARE MAKING the Mustang PCM DELIVER AN F150 FIRING ORDER.
You did NOT CHANGE the firing order of the engine. You made the PCM match the ENGINE'S firing order.
Last edited by JuiceNA; 09-11-2020 at 06:50 PM.
Explained that way it makes sense to me. Thanks. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. So basically it will still sound the same as a f150 when complete.
I was thinking the opposite happened in my head.. I also discovered that the firing order in HP tuners doesn't work with regards to the Coyote engine. I believe it's on Eric's to-do list. The coyote swap Fox pages explained it to me in more detail in a way I could understand.
Been there, done that. You're more than likely correct in the firing order changes with HPT, a lot of the software definitions are legacy and don't actually respond in the way you think. I totally understand what you were thinking, when it comes to this amount of tuning and mechanical changes with engine swaps, things get confusing real fast. I hope to see your stuff south of the border (hint: northeastern states :P ) soon.
Glad it clicked for you, I tried to explain it.
Yes F1 did use pnumatic actuators, too bad I didn't go into mechanical engineering back when I was young. Lots of my ideas have become normal in modern engines. Mostly due to computers which were non existent back then.
that specific firing order table is for the fmem code to set which cylinder # has set a fault so the specific P code is set for the fault cylinder # so the big guy with a acan tool can pin point which cylinder is acting up without having to know the firing order for an alphabetic code i.e. Cyl A B C etc...
lol @ legacy
it is possible to reconfigure the firing order for the injectors and the coils to fire in any order you want in the ecu but it requires remapping the bitmask since the code is consecutive regression so would be quite the undertaking. Not ideal by a long shot.
As compared the firing order changes are done in the harness for f150 vs mustang from the factory. That dates back to the 90s and eec-v with 4 6 and 8 cyl engines having the same firing order and the wiring be configured for it in the harness. Thats why you can run a v8 ecu on a v6 just by simply updating the tine with no wiring changes.
Last edited by decipha; 09-16-2020 at 10:40 PM.
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Look at the way you spoke to people when you thought you were right. You misinterpreted some information from an expert and suddenly you acted like one. It 'only' took 3 pages of replies from more knowledgeable members to make you understand when it's literally Four Stroke Engine 101. I think you need to apologize to the good people of this forum for putting up with your idiotic and rude behavior... Even after that they still helped you.
Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:
(+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
(--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
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2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results
I seem to remember back the SBF days when messing around with firing order you could rewire (injectors and plug wires) to make HO 5.0 SEFI work on an none HO 302, but occasionally there would be some odd fuel trim issues as the computer would not know that Bank 1 and Bank 2 did not have the expected cylinders. 3 cylinders per side are wrong. Fuel trim adjustments on bank 1 are actually 75% bank 2 and so on. Makes some odd problems.
Ford, just had to be diffrent. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Was the fireing order of every V8, except Ford, and Ford had 2 differing one's.
Never mind the diffrent way Ford numbered the cylinders.
At least domestic V8's
thanks for the thread guys, i was not sure neither, i just got it.
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