I've had several systems on the car, starting with the Ford EEC-IV/TwEECer (SN95)/EDIS combo, then MS1/EDIS, MS2, and now the GM 0411. I bought the parts to upgrade to the MS3 but lost confidence with the durability of the hardware (I saw a number of processor failures) and the system's ability to deal with a bad idle surge I was having (which is now gone with the 0411). Of them all the GM has the most promise of running the engine properly. Provided I can make this work I may in the future upgrade to the ECM and TCM used in the Caddy CTS-V as I have the hardware to swap that 8 speed transmission into the car. I will probably begin shopping for the controllers this summer.
It really isn't as radical as it looks. Valve lift is under .500" and duration is 262 advertised so not a particularly lumpy cam. The throttle body is an unique piece but works just like any other one and the TPS is a stock sensor down on the linkage. Yes it has a blower and intercooler but boost has been running at 5lbs max and for that reason the coolant lines for the intercooler have been removed and eventually it will be removed altogether, lowering the scoop by about 4 inches. (I ran 16+lbs earlier but that was on a Buick 215)
Aside from appearance, the reason for the blower is to overcome breathing difficulties with the Buick heads at higher engine speeds (7500rpm redline). But that will also be helped considerably when the TA-Performance heads go on. Well actually that will be another engine, a 350cid Buick 300 which will drop the height of the scoop even more. Its been an ongoing project but I expect to be able to drive it this summer.
Most of the performance is a result of the car's light weight. I expect it to scale out around 2700lbs, maybe less. The engine is good for an easy 300+hp.
Jim
Come to think of it, I had MS on the car before MS1 was even a thing. Sort of an early adopter I guess you could say. But it will never be as reliable as GM. Or as well developed.
Last edited by Jim Blackwood; 05-21-2020 at 11:18 AM.
I really hope I haven't made a bad impression here. Tuning the '411 is way different than anything I've worked on before so it's another steep learning curve. It's far too easy to get frustrated and if I have stepped on anyone's toes I really didn't mean to do that. Really, I'm sorry about it if that happened.
I can see where the car, just from the way it looks could be offensive to some. Again not my intention. Let's just say it's my adult Ed Roth Hot Wheels car and let it go at that OK? I love to play with it, and I've tried very hard to be sure that everything is functional. Beyond that, well it was my daily driver for decades so there's a history. I've had the car since the late 70's.
I'd still like to use it as my daily driver, it's a lot of fun. But I embarked on EFI back almost 25 years ago and while it's always been better than the old Holley 4bbl in most ways, in some it hasn't been quite as good. The original EEC-IV had a surge right around 2000rpm, right at cruising speed, and although the tweecer let me get in and look at the tune, so much was unknown about the controller back in those days that I was very limited in what I could do to try and tune it out and when something that sounded better came along at a Fangler's meet up in Dayton I jumped ship. Some of you might know what that was or might even have been there, but basically it was the coming out party for the Megasquirt as far as I can tell. It seemed like Al and Bruce had a clear winner.
So I got on board, and stayed with it up through the intro of the daughterboard, MS1, MS2, and was ready to install the MS3 parts, but I'd always had trouble with idle control on the blower motor. (The IHC 392 SV in the truck ran fantastic after a few teething problems, and Dan's 1UZ in his TR7 is going great guns under MS2.) Over the years I'd had a handful of processor failures, I think 4 actually but nothing that ever stranded us. Then I began an earnest effort to cure the surge in the latest engine in the MG, the Buick 340 that is in there now. With the help of the forum denizens I think we did everything possible in terms of analyzation and testing and what the datalog was showing at the end of all that was a clear pattern of the MAP following the injector pulsewidth changes. In other words, the controller was shutting down the injectors and then the MAP would come up, and then the injectors would come back on until the MAP dropped and shut down again. This happened any time idle speed dropped below 1300rpm, and no matter what we did we couldn't get it to quit. I dunno, maybe that processor was on it's way out, and it did eventually fail. Fortunately I was only 2 miles out and managed to limp home running pig rich all the way.
So I got to talking to Scott Costanza, a really nice guy who shoehorned an LS4 into his MGB and we were at lunch doing the memorial Ryan's River Run and I asked him about his controller. By this time reliability had become more important to me and I figured GM had to have a pretty good handle on that, and with the resources they had brought to bear over the years it would be hard to beat what they had created, provided you could tune it. That was really the big issue. But, with Chevy's record of hot rodding it seemed like a good direction to take. Scott assured me that there were in fact several good usable low cost options and the tunability was there, so I went junkyarding for supplies, got what was needed online, and was off to a good start. Scott recommended the '411 and that is what I went with after looking at what it was capable of and how deep the tuning community was.
Seemed like it took me FOREVER to finally sort out what was going on with the 24 tooth tone wheel and it got frustrating when I found myself running in circles for weeks trying to get what seemed to me at the time to be basic questions like, "Does the pickup line up with the timing hole when #1 is at TDC? (It does) But I finally got past all that, got the engine running, and lo and behold, there was no idle surge. Clear down to 500rpm. That looked very much like vindication to me at the time. But we move on. I have to give credit where it is due. NSFW, Pete, the guys at GearheadEFI, PCMHammer, TunerPro, OBDLink and the rest, I'd never have gotten this far without their help and I'll always be grateful to them. But I realized that I'd sort of fallen into a niche in my application and would need more help than I could really ask of them. Not only was it a 2bar app, but it was Gen1 stuff too, and even more it was Buick instead of Chevy, plus speed density only and I really really was looking for something off the shelf that would at least make a good starting point. I really wasn't finding that until I got back here after about a year's absence. And it isn't perfect, but I really never asked anyone for that. However I did find most of the big things. SD, cable throttle and 2bar being the biggies. Then I found out you had RTT and that was just the icing on the cake! I'd run RTT with MS from day one. It's addictive. Whoever pushed it through here, you have my undying loyalty.
That brings us up to date. I bought the MPVI2 and a couple licenses. Loaded the software. I'm having issues with connectivity (don't you just LOVE Bluetooth?) but that may be the new Lenova Thinkpad laptop, thankfully it is still under warranty. I'll get that sorted and then we'll see what's what. Anyway, that's my story, hope you liked it, and again apologies for any misgivings, it wasn't intentional.
Oh, one last thing if you don't mind and if anyone is still with me by this point, is there really any important difference between the '088 and the '156 OS when used in the 01' F body? I still need to sort out exactly which OS would be best to use. I started out with a copy of Scott's '088, I think it's one that's made the rounds on the web but it looks like the '156 in the sample OS's could be a good way to go? (I think there may be at least one other I should probably look at but don't remember the number.) Any suggestions most gratefully received.
Been one of the harder climbs, but I feel I'm about to summit, only a few more steps. I've attached some photos y'all might like. First is my benchtop simulator which as you can see allows me to test and adjust my ECM in the comfort of my office. It has a motor driven cam and crank simulator, plug ins for TPS and MAP sensors, pots for WB and MAT inputs, a matrix of banana plug sockets on top for a variety of outputs and inputs such as COP, injector, tach, sensors and such and room for expansion. Speed is adjustable from cranking right on up to redline. That's been quite helpful.
Photos of the car also. That's a Buick 340 (350cid) with an Eaton M112 and an intercooler. The car is a very modified 1971 MGB with a Tremec 5 speed and Jag IRS. So in case anyone wondered, this is what I've been trying so hard to get back on the road.
I think I'm very close. I have the '156 2 bar OS locked and loaded now with a fresh tune, a new and unique VIN based on the Camaro the OS comes from, and it's ready for the first test. The car has already run under control of the '411 ECM so now it should be a matter of tuning. And of course I've run upon another hurdle setting up the VCM Scanner.
It should be a very small matter to those in the know, but my Engine RPM (SAE) in the PID list reads "0" no matter what I do. Now when I had this problem with my wideband input on the EGR sensor line I found a place to enable the signal which allowed me to get that job done, but I can't remember where that was or how I found the reference. Maybe the RPM is similar? So I'm asking if anyone could throw me a hint here. TIA
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