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Thread: What are the risks of learning to tune? How badly could I potentially screw up?

  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    My $.02, but if you stick to your above train of thought "go slow, only mess with things that you understand," and aren't afraid to ask questions, then you will be fine tuning yourself, especially since you are starting from a known good point. Dive in!!!

    -Scott

    2012 Camaro SS/RS, LS3, m6, Whipple 2.9L, custom cam, E85, methanol
    2007 Avalanche, 5.3L "383", 2.3L Whipple, E85, custom cam

  3. #3
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I wouldn't cam it or add the converter until you understood what is going on.

    Adding the extra steps of tuning for the cam would surely hurt the learning process because trying to figure out stuff with the stock camshaft is much easier.

    I'd buy a book or two, take a course or something to get yourself used to how the GM controller works. Being an automatic makes no difference if you ask me, you still have to learn the engine side before diving deep into transmission tuning because a majority of what is done to the engine calibration affects how the transmission shifts and functions.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    You can learn how to tune the airflow model without a camshaft install. Then once you did add in a camshaft it would make doing the re-tune of the airflow model that much faster because you already know what to expect and do.

    This vehicle with the supercharger kit and probably some sort of injector upgrade would have already had the main airflow/fueling tables adjusted so it was safe under part throttle and full throttle (boost). You learn to do that stuff by fine tuning what was already done, often times some shops will not do a dyno tune and then do road tuning afterwards. The street driving can load the engine different and cause it to be off from how it was on the dyno and they just let the fuel trims fix it instead.

    Not saying that is what they did with yours but I see that alot. Or they only tune the MAF sensor and won't tune the VVE (speed density) portion of the tune.

    Modern computers and modern software like HP Tuners make tuning with wideband o2 sensors fairly simple, so long as you can make the wideband read in the logs to produce an error % from the commanded air/fuel ratio to the actual air/fuel ratio it will make this a quicker learning process.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  6. #6
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    Redacted
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  7. #7
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    Ok...I'm going to rain on your parade here. Wanting to learn how to tune is admirable but...

    The way your OP reads, your '08 Corvette automatic w. supercharger and meth likely has a stock short block, but you want to do more, like add a camshaft and change the converter. My advice, since you want to add a cam to an engine that is already well-mod'ed, is to first go though the short block with some mods for reliability/durability, like...a forged crank, forged pistons, a ring package proper for use with a blower and a CR such that the blower can work better.

    Going the way your headed, with a stock short block, is just asking for trouble...no matter how good a tuner you end up being.
    Hib Halverson
    Just Another Tuner in Training.

  8. #8
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Unless you royally screw something up, those bottom ends will do 800-900hp pretty easy.

    Not many CTSV or ZR1 guys will just yank an engine because they want to add another 100-200hp over stock.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    Unless you royally screw something up, those bottom ends will do 800-900hp pretty easy.

    Not many CTSV or ZR1 guys will just yank an engine because they want to add another 100-200hp over stock.
    I agree with your earlier post recommending books on calibration and (even better) courses on tuning such as what The Tuning School offers, but, maybe I misunderstood the OP. I thought he was talking about a base LS3 with an aftermarket blower and meth rather than an LSA or LS9.

    Can you cite some cases were LS3 short blocks (cast crank and cast pistons) have been reliable and durable at the 800-900-hp level?
    Hib Halverson
    Just Another Tuner in Training.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    I agree with your earlier post recommending books on calibration and (even better) courses on tuning such as what The Tuning School offers, but, maybe I misunderstood the OP. I thought he was talking about a base LS3 with an aftermarket blower and meth rather than an LSA or LS9.

    Can you cite some cases were LS3 short blocks (cast crank and cast pistons) have been reliable and durable at the 800-900-hp level?
    I have done a couple turbo LS3 setups well over 800whp and lived just fine. Stock long blocks aside from head studs. One lived at 950ft lbs to the tire for a while till the stock head bolts said no and I pulled 300ft lbs out of it to keep it happy. Hp did not change. Its in the tune and how you drive it.
    The most hated, make the most power.
    93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.

  11. #11
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    The local shop near me builds centrifugal LS3's to 800whp before they start getting concerned about going boom and beef things up in the bottom end.

  12. #12
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I was basing it off crank hp, so 650-700hp at the ground.

    Even being an LS3 engine, he's probably only at that 550-600hp to the tire if the engine made 380ish stock.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  13. #13
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    Found a relevant post on another forum from Doug at ECS:

    We have found that the power a stock LSx engine can handle is directly related to octane used more so then a vague question of what can it handle.

    We have literally 100's of stock bottom end cars over 700 RWHP with LS1/LS6/LS2/LS3 and LS7 engines with great longevity. Yes some fail, but the % is very small and almost every time it was fuel related/detonation problem. Pump failing, bad gas, or being ran too hard without proper recommended fuel in the car.
    Meth injection is a great way to have octane on demand and substantially opens the door for how much power a stock engine can handle while still being reasonable to drive daily.
    So basically add the octane, and you can raise the power the stock engine can safely handle dramatically.

    One of our leading examples of stock bottom ends lasting is on a 2003 LS1 Corvette that holds the stock bottom end record @ 9.33/148 in a full weight car with over 1400 passes on the original engine. Secret weapon? OCTANE! always ran on 100 in the tank and meth injection. Hopefully that saves one of you an engine.

  14. #14
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    Ok, ok.
    I surrender.

    The anecdotal evidence posted above must mean that stock bottom ends are awesome, as long as you don't have trouble with fuel supply or detonation.

    Damn conventional wisdom! Fill up with racing gasoline and turn up the boost!
    Last edited by Hib Halverson; 02-02-2019 at 11:59 AM.
    Hib Halverson
    Just Another Tuner in Training.

  15. #15
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    To increase your knowledge, there is a web site https://www.hpacademy.com/courses/ba...ng-fuel-tuning
    If the link doesn't get to the free lessons page keep clicking around to find it. Those lessons are a great for anyone to understand the terminology and functions of an EFI system.

  16. #16
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    You'll learn faster when it's your own car.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Better yet, send me your tune, I'll mess up the the fueling and idle (except WOT), then see if you can fix it. Once you get it, then go ahead, swap your cam.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 07-31-2020 at 11:11 AM.
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