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Thread: '15 Cruze Turbo - Why can't I get my boost to turn up?

  1. #21
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    I am pretty sure. I see why it's not commanding more boost. I took the peak boost down to 215kpa the last time I tuned it... I can't believe I missed it. I had it at 225 before and it was giving me 2-3 degrees of kr, so just to be safe I turned it down to pay attention to the rest of my tune and gradually turn it up. So now I picked between the 2 of them and set it at 220 and am going to log again shortly.

    If anyone has more channels that they think I should be logging, I'm all ears.

    Thanks, everyone. It's nice to be in forums where there isn't hella fighting and s**+ talking. Lol

  2. #22
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    Driver demand also plays a roll to max boost achieved - set 100% pedal to 300 or 400. Max boost at 215kpa is where I would leave it at since that's 17psi boost and max boost is just a max ceiling it wont limit boost - itll just limit boost so it wont go past it. Like what was stated the turbo wont make power past that really

    edit: looking at your most current tune posted you still haven't made all the changes to the turbocharger/boost settings from the link i posted in my first response and forgot if i mentioned it but after you get a wideband you also have to disable knock enrich also along with piston protection,cot and turbo over temp
    Last edited by TCSS07; 02-19-2019 at 05:50 PM.

  3. #23
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    So, I just got back from a short drive. I did another tune that gave me absolutely no power (like, the thing felt like a tugboat), so I reverted back to my other tune (v5b), made a copy of it, and upped the max boost. It felt night and day, and got rid of almost all of the KR.

    attached is the log and the tune from the run. I didn't have the chance to do a full 3rd gear run, but I did open it up. It is VERY snappy, very responsive. it feels really good "up top" (as far as "up top" goes on these engines), so I feel like I am on the right track.

    Opinions, questions, concerns?
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    Driver demand also plays a roll to max boost achieved - set 100% pedal to 300 or 400. Max boost at 215kpa is where I would leave it at since that's 17psi boost and max boost is just a max ceiling it wont limit boost - itll just limit boost so it wont go past it. Like what was stated the turbo wont make power past that really

    edit: looking at your most current tune posted you still haven't made all the changes to the turbocharger/boost settings from the link i posted in my first response and forgot if i mentioned it but after you get a wideband you also have to disable knock enrich also along with piston protection,cot and turbo over temp
    For sure. As far as the changes, what am I missing from what I just posted above? and a wideband is the very next thing on my list for sure.

  5. #25
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    you are definitely running on rich side for the wot afr thats for sure lol. o2s1 mv are at 950 - your probably still getting some knock due to the rich afr - don't touch spark until you get the wideband hooked up to verify and don't forget about those other fueling adder sub charts to disable when the time comes. the only spark id tell you to adjust is spark knock recovery rate by at least doubling the chart or like i have it is 0rpm is .9 and 2k rpm is .5 and interpolate vertical between the 2 rows, cut burst knock at least in half - i zero it out personally - and zero out static knock retard vs cylinder
    i would raise turbo over speed limit min to 1.0 - found in airflow/turbocharger
    under torque management set peak torque, brake torque and over boost torque to 500 - set trans output max through rear propshaft max to max(96,674), brake torque limit (bottom) to 6042
    driver demand map a normal - set 100% to 300
    boost max you have a 225kpa which is fine but dont run it harder than that and the last two charts air knock air mass and pressure delta
    pressure delta increases the ramp rate of boost but may also limit max boost achieved also so when i had my 1st gen cruze i set that to 2.0 across the board
    knock air mass i set each row the same number but heres how i had mine see attached Attachment 87096
    my cruze held 215kpa the whole way
    Last edited by TCSS07; 02-19-2019 at 06:28 PM.

  6. #26
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    For sure. I figured I could lean it out a bit, but am just still confused on exactly where I would need to lean it out. Again, last time I tuned a car was a 88 hatchback honda with a b16a running crome.

    I won't touch the spark until I get a wideband. One of my buddies said he would loan me one (he has more than quite a few).

    Which particular fueling adder sub charts?

    I will do the spark knock recovery rate and whatever else you have suggested.

    As far as the torque management stuff, what would be the reason to set it there? Also why the rear propshaft max to those specific numbers? I am only asking because it's a pain in the ass to find information on this stuff. lol.

    as for the boost, i set it to 225 just to be safe. I wouldn't run it harder than that. It feels really good, but I know it's a shitty, tiny turbo. I wouldn't ever run it beyond that at this point. Granted, I am about 10ft above sea level, but I know that people run them hella hard and mess up their turbo and engines. Seen i hella times on cats that junkyard turbo their old hondas and melt valves into pistons from thinking they can "home depot boost controller" their stuff and then end up needing a new engine. Unfortunately, I learned that lesson hard on a couple of DSMs. lol. Trying to not to make it again.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by RoninDusette; 02-19-2019 at 06:33 PM.

  7. #27
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    you would lean out the afr from the maf chart - thats where you make all of the fueling corrections for wot fueling and trims - you would make a histogram logging afr error % and make the adjustments in the maf hz cells that you hit during wot/pe
    knock enrichment is disabled so just leave that but they are under fuel/temp control and they are called cot, piston protection and turbo over temp protection - these are all sub fueling charts that add fuel based on certain parameters which will effect your base afr tuning by adding fuel so your not actually getting proper readings which is why they need to be turned off during tuning and you could turn them back on if you want after but i dont - the only one id suggest would be turbo over temp but even so like i said once im done im good to go and just leave them off
    as for the t/m - i turn it off and raise the bar because i don't want the computer involved in determining the power out and bullshit - be gone MF lol - but also the things i talked about are also things to limit max boost achieved because your last log you have it set to 225 max boost but were only around 210
    Last edited by TCSS07; 02-19-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    you would lean out the afr from the maf chart - thats where you make all of the fueling corrections for wot fueling and trims - you would make a histogram logging afr error % and make the adjustments in the maf hz cells that you hit during wot/pe
    knock enrichment is disabled so just leave that but they are under fuel/temp control and they are called cot, piston protection and turbo over temp protection - these are all sub fueling charts that add fuel based on certain parameters which will effect your base afr tuning by adding fuel so your not actually getting proper readings
    Ahhhhhhh. ok. I think I get you. That makes sense. Where is the MAF chart. There are so many damn tables it's hard to tell if I am looking at the right one.

    Again, threads like this will help others in the future so you don't have to hold hands through the whole process.

  9. #29
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    airflow/general/maf calibration/airflow vs freq

  10. #30
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    I think I made all of the changes you suggested. Been doing a LOT of reading to understand. I am going to flash it and log tomorrow unless you see guys see anything that stands out. Attached is the current tune.

    Also, I am going to reset my brain (as in my actual self. lol) over the weekend, then flash back to stock (obviously keeping all of my previous attempts), and see if I can go from stock, datalog, read the logs myself, and try to get back to where I am at as of the last tune. I figure as long as I stay safe and take it slow, I can basically keep doing this over and over and really get to know this stuff. That's how I learned to tune Hondas years ago back when OBD1 conversions and EEPROM flashing was the all the rage. Lol. So far I haven't noticed anything terrible. No knock in multiple driving conditions. I notice that I am burning more gas, but I have had my foot in it lately. haha.

    Anywho, let me know what you think and I will update after I flash/log tomorrow.

    Thanks everyone's help and experience.
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  11. #31
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    howd it go?
    just about - you missed pressure delta factor - i just made them all 2.0 found under t/m-boost control (it controls boost ramp in but also will put a ceiling on max boost you can achieve)
    default trans limit - set to 6042 found under t/m-general - just because lol
    last two was under spark retard - burst knock and recovery rate. Burst knock is basically timing that is pulled in anticipation of knock whether you get it or not which is why i turn it off or at least cut the table in half and the other is knock recovery rate which means if you do get knock/ign timing pulled - its how fast does it return to the proper ign timing that is set in the high octane table which is why i raise it up some

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    howd it go?
    just about - you missed pressure delta factor - i just made them all 2.0 found under t/m-boost control (it controls boost ramp in but also will put a ceiling on max boost you can achieve)
    default trans limit - set to 6042 found under t/m-general - just because lol
    last two was under spark retard - burst knock and recovery rate. Burst knock is basically timing that is pulled in anticipation of knock whether you get it or not which is why i turn it off or at least cut the table in half and the other is knock recovery rate which means if you do get knock/ign timing pulled - its how fast does it return to the proper ign timing that is set in the high octane table which is why i raise it up some
    Word. I did see this post and am going to make those changes and log then of course post. I recently got laid off and the last few days have been hectic. When my laptop finishes charging I'll do a run or two and post it up with the tune.

    It really does feel great right now, but I know I can get more out of it, as well as keep good fuel economy. I took my boy for a ride in it stock, with the trifecta tune, and yesterday with the current tune. He said it was night and day. Granted I cannot turn it off and on like trifecta, but it's a fun ride right now, and still seeing pretty much no knock.

    Anywho. I'll post up later today with the tune and the results. Thanks.

  13. #33
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    I'm just going to add a couple things to this thread for anyone reading it. Any of these newer torque based pcms like the E39,E78,E92 etc etc it's important to not get carried away with the driver demand and any other torque management tables. They are designed to be used in accurate prediction and calculation of the torque output of the engine. Raising up these tables to crazy high numbers is not necessary to achieve the results people are after. This can be seen by truly studying everything closely in an OEM calibration the way it is setup. I've got an extensive amount of time into tuning these factory turbo cars now and I can show in a log where even 25-30 psi yes 25-30 psi can be achieved on this car in particular with having the driver demand table set to no higher than 180 in the bottom row as well as leaving the pressure delta factor stock and raising the knock airmass table just over the maximum airmass that the engine is seeing in the first couple columns of the 0,-1,-3 while leaving the rest of the knock airmass table stock or close to it allowing it to actually do the job it was intended to do. That bad tank of fuel is absolutely always a possibility or maybe someone accidentally puts lower grade 87 octane in the car that's running an aggressive tune. Spark knock and now no control for the pcm to reduce boost having the whole knock airmass table set to like 1.5 (for example) like I've seen in tunes, a bad combination.
    Last edited by KLUG'S SS; 03-01-2019 at 09:49 AM.
    2017 Silverado LTZ

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    howd it go?
    just about - you missed pressure delta factor - i just made them all 2.0 found under t/m-boost control (it controls boost ramp in but also will put a ceiling on max boost you can achieve)
    default trans limit - set to 6042 found under t/m-general - just because lol
    last two was under spark retard - burst knock and recovery rate. Burst knock is basically timing that is pulled in anticipation of knock whether you get it or not which is why i turn it off or at least cut the table in half and the other is knock recovery rate which means if you do get knock/ign timing pulled - its how fast does it return to the proper ign timing that is set in the high octane table which is why i raise it up some
    So, after doing everything suggested, it basically went much slower and didn't do much of anything. I think I just did too much at once. Though, I have been studying my ass off, and likely next week I am going to go back to stock and try to tune back up to where I want it again. Practice makes perfect, right?

    As of right now, I am runnining the 6b tune but I logged MUCH more data this time, so if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free. I am getting some kr around 4200ish RPM and the boost peaks around 18 psi from what I can tell. I wouldn't mind it sitting at 19, or at least keeping a solid 18 psi through the pull, though. This tune does feel very snappy, pulls, etc. But I know I can do better, and I think with this giant log (driving normally, cruising on the freeway, a 3rd gear pull, and a couple of 4th gear pulls).
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  15. #35
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    then it obviously didnt like something and must of hit a torque request demand issue and closed the throttle on you. can you post the file you used in the log that didnt boost? all i know is when i made the changes to the charts that i posted in my first response it held boost all the way to 7k. i know on my le2 2nd gen cruze whenever i flash i cant go into boost right away the ecm has to do like a power down cycle its weird. when i would flash and go to boost i would only get like 3 psi but if i flash and let the car sit for a hour and come back then boost was restored i never quite understood why but i havent messed around with it too much since its a lease and dont really care
    these were the settings i was suggesting from the start in the link i provided

    Quote from chris @ hptuners

    The main culprit might is probably the knock airmass table, or the turbo overspeed limiting.

    eg.
    Pressure Delta factor = 2.00 whole table
    Knock airmass = 2.00 whole table
    Overspeed limit Min = 2.00
    Driver Demand MAP A = Set 100% pedal row to 200
    peak torque = 500 whole table
    brake torque = 500 whole table
    overboot limit = 500 whole table
    rear propshaft max torque = 8192

    This will hold the wastegate closed to your boost limit. I found using the knock airmass table and the Turbo Overspeed Pressure Ratio Max table easy ways to control boost instead of just the max limit table. The Knock airmass table will let you ramp in boost easily, while the pressure ratio limit is good for dropping of the boost at high RPM's where the intercooler is struggling.

    i noticed your file posted has overboost torque set at 0 so in case your car went out of scale for a sec it would reference this chart which is commanding 0 torque
    Last edited by TCSS07; 03-02-2019 at 10:35 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    then it obviously didnt like something and must of hit a torque request demand issue and closed the throttle on you. can you post the file you used in the log that didnt boost? all i know is when i made the changes to the charts that i posted in my first response it held boost all the way to 7k. i know on my le2 2nd gen cruze whenever i flash i cant go into boost right away the ecm has to do like a power down cycle its weird. when i would flash and go to boost i would only get like 3 psi but if i flash and let the car sit for a hour and come back then boost was restored i never quite understood why but i havent messed around with it too much since its a lease and dont really care
    these were the settings i was suggesting from the start in the link i provided

    Quote from chris @ hptuners

    The main culprit might is probably the knock airmass table, or the turbo overspeed limiting.

    eg.
    Pressure Delta factor = 2.00 whole table
    Knock airmass = 2.00 whole table
    Overspeed limit Min = 2.00
    Driver Demand MAP A = Set 100% pedal row to 200
    peak torque = 500 whole table
    brake torque = 500 whole table
    overboot limit = 500 whole table
    rear propshaft max torque = 8192

    This will hold the wastegate closed to your boost limit. I found using the knock airmass table and the Turbo Overspeed Pressure Ratio Max table easy ways to control boost instead of just the max limit table. The Knock airmass table will let you ramp in boost easily, while the pressure ratio limit is good for dropping of the boost at high RPM's where the intercooler is struggling.

    i noticed your file posted has overboost torque set at 0 so in case your car went out of scale for a sec it would reference this chart which is commanding 0 torque
    Ahhh. ok. For sure. I will check that out and see how it works.

    Here is the other tune/log files from the one that didn't make much boost.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #37
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    im not sure what your exactly talking about because this log you just posted shows you reaching about 220kpa of boost which is peak of 18psi and it tappered down to around 13psi. so what do you mean you weren't boosting? tps held open. Also you still didnt disable to tests for p0101, p0106 and p0121 (set min ect to 493) along with the p0068 test (set to 8000) under engine diag/airflow. you should also disabled the post 02 test and cat test under engine diag/exhaust. airflow/turbocharger - still need to set turbo overspeed limit min to 1.0. dont forget when you get the wideband to disable cot,turbo and piston protection under fuel/temp control because those tables add fuel which will mess with your base afr fueling for tuning. your still very rich you need to work on those fuel trims getting them closer to a -5% LTFT. you still didnt change any of the t/m settings either to what i rec/posted before? did you post the wrong file? i kinda feel like im repeating myself a little bit but please make all the changes from the post above to those charts because if you dont make all the changes and all it takes is one chart not set high enough and it will limit you
    Last edited by TCSS07; 03-03-2019 at 07:31 AM.

  18. #38
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    I guess I misspoke. It just didn't have any kick to it. It just felt slower than the 6b tune for some reason. It did actually feel solid through the power band, but it lost that "pin you back" feel. I think I'm going to do a side by side after I reflash with the things you suggested and that one.

  19. #39
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    ok that makes a little more sense. sometimes it also depends on when you start off in the rpm band and in what gear to get that done because from what i saw it boosted just fine. to get more power you'll need to get a the wideband and dial in the wot fueling and the you can fine tune the spark. my friends sonic rs 1.4l turbo manual holds boost throughout at a 11.5-11.8 afr and i was able to get 2 more degrees of timing out of it before knock started to occur and it pulls pretty good so dont give up just make another tune with the above settings and see how it holds

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    ok that makes a little more sense. sometimes it also depends on when you start off in the rpm band and in what gear to get that done because from what i saw it boosted just fine. to get more power you'll need to get a the wideband and dial in the wot fueling and the you can fine tune the spark. my friends sonic rs 1.4l turbo manual holds boost throughout at a 11.5-11.8 afr and i was able to get 2 more degrees of timing out of it before knock started to occur and it pulls pretty good so dont give up just make another tune with the above settings and see how it holds
    Word. As for the changes after I posted 6b, the last tune I posted that we are looking at now is exactly that. I will go back through and re-make those changes. I am sorry if you are repeating yourself. I will make sure the next tune has everything that you mentioned.