2009 charger 5.7 stage 2 texas speed cam install against my better judgement

[lonniejordan351]

Cam Specs straight off Texas Speed And Performance website seeing as my customer can't find the cam card.

.583/.583 lift

.218/.226 dur @.050

112 LSA

I have been reading through several threads for what seems to be forever. To start with the car would start idle for a could seconds then stall out before I touched anything in the tune. I have tried everything with this car to make it run and the only thing I can seem to get is a halfway idle, whole car shakes and fuel trims were way negative. I have been through the repository trying to check and make sure I started with a true stock tune but the closest thing I could find was a 09 Challenger. I have put the tune back to the way it was when I first got the car. I did notice that the MDS was already disabled so I can feel safe saying it wasn't a completely stock tune. I Replaced the lifters and cam due to a failure of a roller and it ate the cam lobe up. I have installed non-MDS lifters and MDS solenoid delete plugs. Just wondering if someone could point me in the right direction to start with as I am new to this tuning thing with HP but it is the way of the future. Thanks in advance.

[spoolboy]

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...hlight=started

[Homer]

All of the idle settings seem stock for a cammed set-up. Have you tried bumping up Idle in all the tables (elevated, base, trans...etc) by 200rpm? Or have you already tried that an just posted the tune that was originally on the car when you got it?

[06300CSRT8]

That's a really small cam, I would recommend starting over and leaving NN enabled. Your VE is very rough to be using NN disabled. I can see how as soon as the idle comes down near to 800-900rpms you have a cliff of additional fuel in your VE table.

[lonniejordan351]

I posted the tune that was in the car before anything was done. I tried some of the settings in 06300CSRT8's very informative post and it didn't help much probably due to the cam not being much. I'm going to start over this morning loading what the original tune was and make some very small adjustments to the idle, turn the NN on, and adjust on the VE tables slowly. Thanks for the pointers and I'll post up with an update in a little bit.

[06300CSRT8]

you cant adjust the VE with NN on, your only fuel adjustments are to the fuel injector tables. Do a quick search on ANN or NN tuning, youll find the threads and pointers on how to setup your scanner. Basically need to log fuel trims, injector pulsewidth and fuel mass, make a table showing the percent differences by injector pulsewidth and adjust accordingly.

[lonniejordan351]

I did find a really good thread on tuning with the NN on and how to setup the scanner and make fuel adjustments. Now my question is, I did make changes to the VE table while the NN was on so do I need to copy the table for bank 2 and paste it back to table 1 and then use the fuel trim tuning method? I can't say thanks enough for helping guide me through this as this is my first time with this.

[white1]

I recently finished a stage1 ina customers truck. Started and idled like stock on the stock tune.
May want to double check everything.
Fyi, stage 1 is 214/222 .583/.583 so, not a huge difference.

[Homer]

I did find a really good thread on tuning with the NN on and how to setup the scanner and make fuel adjustments. Now my question is, I did make changes to the VE table while the NN was on so do I need to copy the table for bank 2 and paste it back to table 1 and then use the fuel trim tuning method? I can't say thanks enough for helping guide me through this as this is my first time with this.

I thought VE was essentially ignored when NN is left on?

[lonniejordan351]

This car would start and die after cam install. While installing the cam while the oil pump was removed I turned the engine so I could verify the timing marks more than once. I have checked for vacuum leaks when I had it where it would idle, found none present. I have substituted a know good map sensor and with the VE tables as they were before I touched anything in the tune side. I have turned the NN on and put the VE table for bank 1 back to original or what I think is original. The car will not start and idle without assistance from the pedal. Now I, just for giggles, put the VE table back to where it was before ,altered from stock tune, and it will start, idle, and drive all while the NN is turned on with only minor issues with the driveability. I know I am missing something so simple that I'll smack myself when it is finally found.

[mbray01]

that cam should idle perfectly fine on the stock tune, YOu likely have a mechanical issue. More than likely the pushrods are too long and holding the valves open.
pull the covers and recheck, but I would bet they are never closing.
these hemis have extremely short travel lifter plungers. unlike the ls which has i believe around .160" of travel, the hemis have something like .036" of travel. the ls'syou can guess at the length and it will work, the hemis you have to be dead nuts accurate. I really dont know why they send pushrods with the kits, as I have never once been able to use the pushrods that come in the kits, And i have installed tons of cams, and used kit by all th big name chrysler shops.

Pushrod length. double check it

[lonniejordan351]

I will double check this first thing in the morning. Thanks for the info.

[lonniejordan351]

That was my exact problem. I did find out that most aftermarket cams have the same base circle as a 6.1 which in fact is different from a 5.7 or 6.4. Thanks for the info this was a lesson learned the hard way.

[06300CSRT8]

Not sure that?s entirely true, problem is your 2009 is the transition year for the 5.7, before 2009 it was non VVT and shared the exact cam specs as the 6.1. Comp has screwed that up for me more than once when requesting a 2009+ vvt cam

[mbray01]

The problem I find is that not one single person can tell me the difference between the base circle of the cam coming out and the one going in.
When ordering an ls cam I can call and they can give me exact specs between both cams, and based on that be able to order the correct pushrods
Ask anybody grinding a dodge cam, and you get a "UH, Ill have to get back to you on that." Drives me nuts.
But, essentially anytime I see a cammed dodge engine that you have to hold throttle to keep it running, the pushrods are too long. See it way to many times.

[06300CSRT8]

If you have a 6.1 or pre eagle 5.7 and somehow manage to order a cam with over 0.364 or so lobe lift, be suspect because the math don't work for it to fit....

5.7 cam base circle diameter 1.615-1.620"
6.1 and all smaller aftermarket cams base circle diameter 1.540"
5.7 Eagle/6.4 circle diameter 1.50"

Theoretical max base circle diameter in relation to lobe lift = 2X lobe lift - #4 bearing dia (2.245")
So if you have a 600" lift cam using a 1.65 rocker ratio you would have a lobe lift of 0.364" the largest your base circle can be is 2.245 - 2 X 0.364 which equals 1.517"

So based on the above, only 5.7 eagle (2009+) and 6.4L engines can get a factory base circle sized aftermarket cam and achieve over 0.364 lobe lift (.600 with the stock 1.65 rocker)

[spoolboy]

If you have a 6.1 or pre eagle 5.7 and somehow manage to order a cam with over 0.364 or so lobe lift, be suspect because the math don't work for it to fit....

5.7 cam base circle diameter 1.615-1.620"
6.1 and all smaller aftermarket cams base circle diameter 1.540"
5.7 Eagle/6.4 circle diameter 1.50"

Theoretical max base circle diameter in relation to lobe lift = 2X lobe lift - #4 bearing dia (2.245")
So if you have a 600" lift cam using a 1.65 rocker ratio you would have a lobe lift of 0.364" the largest your base circle can be is 2.245 - 2 X 0.364 which equals 1.517"

So based on the above, only 5.7 eagle (2009+) and 6.4L engines can get a factory base circle sized aftermarket cam and achieve over 0.364 lobe lift (.600 with the stock 1.65 rocker)

That is handy to know!

[Homer]

Wasn't there a change in the rocker pedestal design as well?

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...-hemi-anatomy/

[spoolboy]

Dang, that's good info too at the link!

[06300CSRT8]

Wasn't there a change in the rocker pedestal design as well?

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...-hemi-anatomy/

That's correct, and the pushrod length is different for that reason, as well, I believe.