Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 68

Thread: tuning virtual volumetric efficentcy table

  1. #21
    ok. good to know that. also when I hit calculate coefficients it sends a block of values into negative. what is going on with that?

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,299
    Quote Originally Posted by nicul15 View Post
    ok. good to know that. also when I hit calculate coefficients it sends a block of values into negative. what is going on with that?
    bad data in, bad data out. set up those boundaries and axis' properly and dont smooth it. if you're still having trouble with it you can copy paste your error by zone, calculate, then the next zone, calculate, etc.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    i don't smooth but if there are and cells that are obviously not in line with the group then I will smooth that individual cell.

    you can copy the whole table and paste it into the other ones.

    on a side note, on my C7Z I've been experimenting with the VVE Editor and set everything from 500 to 7000 RPM and 1.0 PR to 2.4 PR (boost) to one value (2300 for example) so it's all one plane and my fueling showed zero errors at WOT. that's a little concerning. I asked Howard at Redline if he ever experienced this, he told me he has thought for a while now that the VVE Editor is not calculating the coefficients properly....not sure if HPT is aware of this or not.
    Ok so if I get it right does it eventually smooth itself as the data gets more populated
    Last edited by nicul15; 05-26-2019 at 09:30 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,299
    once it is very close then you can smooth it a little bit. if you smooth something that is still off into the good data then it won't work.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    read up in GenIV forums about VVE also since that's when it came out.
    Will do. Thanks for the advice.

  6. #26
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    22
    Do you use the stft+ltft method or the pressure ratio?

  7. #27
    Advanced Tuner Ghostnotes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppacapp View Post
    What preferred method of logging are you guys using to graph VVE? Are you just driving around trying to populate as many cells as possible? Or disabling PE and other items, etc and doing the 2000rpm hold 5 secs, 2500rpm hold 5secs up to 4000rpm etc etc pulls? I did the later but when I calculated the coefficients I had the same issue Ghost was having with some cells being WAY off from the surrounding ones. I assume i can just interpolate manually in those cells? Or is HPtuners having an issue with the coefficient calculations?
    My plan on a street VVE tune would to be to do a scan or 3 at say idle-2000, get that working then work up in maybe 500rpm increments. Worked in my real VE days.

    I am still having issues with this and it has prevented me from going ANY further. I believe there are other issues as well. I'm at a point in my tune where I really can't go any further until i can do a solid VVE tune. ON the 2 occasions i did try, when I dialed it in below 2000rpm before it would screw up the, ride and throttle response was perfect.Sooo my torque,timing and VE/MAF must have been close seeing that i had less than 2% on the trims. It was that good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    i don't smooth but if there are and cells that are obviously not in line with the group then I will smooth that individual cell.

    you can copy the whole table and paste it into the other ones.

    on a side note, on my C7Z I've been experimenting with the VVE Editor and set everything from 500 to 7000 RPM and 1.0 PR to 2.4 PR (boost) to one value (2300 for example) so it's all one plane and my fueling showed zero errors at WOT. that's a little concerning. I asked Howard at Redline if he ever experienced this, he told me he has thought for a while now that the VVE Editor is not calculating the coefficients properly....not sure if HPT is aware of this or not.
    Ive been suspicious of this form the beginning of trying to tune my C7 and it's hard to believe this is not known by the staff. Ive manually mapped out my zone boundaries and still get the errors and outrageous conversions. My cells are 1 to 1,so if i copy from 1.22 at 3100rpm it pastes at 1.22 at 3100rpm...etc. Something is definitely wrong. It could be a problem with certain versions of windows and hardware. Maybe even something related to certain PCM batches......windows and hardware but the problem no doubt exists in some combination or it would be more widespread
    I always tune VVE....
    2016 C7 M7 Z51
    Callies ultra billet crank
    Callies ultra billet rods
    Diamond pistons
    Jhonson high speed lifters
    Ported and polished headwork
    Custom cam
    YSi-V7

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, Md
    Posts
    1,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    on a side note, on my C7Z I've been experimenting with the VVE Editor and set everything from 500 to 7000 RPM and 1.0 PR to 2.4 PR (boost) to one value (2300 for example) so it's all one plane and my fueling showed zero errors at WOT. that's a little concerning. I asked Howard at Redline if he ever experienced this, he told me he has thought for a while now that the VVE Editor is not calculating the coefficients properly....not sure if HPT is aware of this or not.
    Are you in "speed density" when this is happening, or full MAF mode?
    Factory Stock 97 SS M6 13.51 @ 104.3 mph
    Stock Longblock LS1 w/ 233/238 P.S.I. Cam
    10.81 @ 126.9 Full interior, six speed on 275 radials, a decade ago

    '99 TA trunk mounted 76mm 6 Liter
    9.0s in '09 @ 153 MPH

    Turbo 5.3 Volvo 740 Wagon
    32psi and still winding out 5th on the highway somewhere

  9. #29
    I smooth areas that are off significantly more and then smooth section before calc coefficients. That way it brings them more in line.

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,299
    Quote Originally Posted by GrannySShifting View Post
    Are you in "speed density" when this is happening, or full MAF mode?
    this is SD only. I even bought a baro breakout harness and pulled the maf wire to make doubly sure there are no maf references (that makes it easier to go back and forth to MAF if needed).

  11. #31
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Miami,Fl.
    Posts
    290
    Issue i'm having is even after getting my VVE in line (still in SD MAF failed), my predicted v.s. delivered is -10LB.FT off everywhere. Coincidence is if you take my stock VVE table and add 10% to the whole thing, it more or less lines up with my version of the table which I calibrated the same way you guys do.

    So what i'm wondering is if my truck is requiring 10% more fuel via the VVE table, it prob needs 10% more of everything. What else should I be adding 10% more to? DD table? Peak torque table? Somethings gotta get these numbers to line up...
    2023 Ford Maverick 2.0T AWD

  12. #32
    Advanced Tuner Ghostnotes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    471
    I just tried another round and still the same problem. I can get my idle perfect, trims pretty much 0, timing steady at 17*, throttle good, torque matches. Take a small drive to gather error data, copy and paste special ,multiply by % and out the window it goes. I'd be happy to post up a video if someone is willing to help to see if in fact I am doing something wrong.

    I am also getting boundary errors. If someone can elaborate on this maybe it would help me along. What is it checking it against? My rows and axis in the editor match 100%, my row and axis has been changed via the options in the VE editor to a 3 bar map. What else might need to be changed in the editor besides changing the rows and axis in the VE editor to match.

    Here is what I did...

    Changed out my stock MAP to the red label, adjusted my MAP characteristics accordingly, left MAP estimation alone along with the other settings AAP1,2,3 and it is set to NI-TIAP. Went to my VE table changed the options to 3 bar, copied row and column axis to my scanner to match then on to scanning.....

    Am I missing anything anywhere?
    I always tune VVE....
    2016 C7 M7 Z51
    Callies ultra billet crank
    Callies ultra billet rods
    Diamond pistons
    Jhonson high speed lifters
    Ported and polished headwork
    Custom cam
    YSi-V7

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostnotes View Post
    I just tried another round and still the same problem. I can get my idle perfect, trims pretty much 0, timing steady at 17*, throttle good, torque matches. Take a small drive to gather error data, copy and paste special ,multiply by % and out the window it goes. I'd be happy to post up a video if someone is willing to help to see if in fact I am doing something wrong.

    I am also getting boundary errors. If someone can elaborate on this maybe it would help me along. What is it checking it against? My rows and axis in the editor match 100%, my row and axis has been changed via the options in the VE editor to a 3 bar map. What else might need to be changed in the editor besides changing the rows and axis in the VE editor to match.

    Here is what I did...

    Changed out my stock MAP to the red label, adjusted my MAP characteristics accordingly, left MAP estimation alone along with the other settings AAP1,2,3 and it is set to NI-TIAP. Went to my VE table changed the options to 3 bar, copied row and column axis to my scanner to match then on to scanning.....

    Am I missing anything anywhere?
    Ill help where I can.

    The boundary errors: they check only within themselves. If you have an obscure value it will throw out the whole thing within that boundary. Forcing you to start over

    My question: do you adjust vve and maf in the idle areas while in gear, rolling, or while actually idling?

  14. #34
    Advanced Tuner Redline MS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New York- South Florida
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    correlation is not causation. never forget that.

    "faster cars around...." lol, around WHERE? no one knows who or what is out there running what. WORLD RECORD!!! (of the people reading this). Come on with that....

    there are more people who DON'T want you to know what they have than people who need to brag about what they have.

    tuning VVE is 99% about driveability, shifting, idling, smoothness, etc and tuning it properly certainly doesn't make your car slower....

    typically when a tuner doesn't address the VVE this is a choice of time and money. if you get charged the same price (due to competition) for a tune where Tuner A spends 30 minutes loading his base tune and making a few dyno pulls to get the MAF in line and tells you "It runs like that cause of the big cam, you got a real man's car" vs Calibrator A telling you "I tuned the VVE for you for a couple hours so it drives just like stock and won't die when youre coasting or idling" and they both are going to put down similar numbers within margin of error, the VVE tuned car possibly putting down more depending on knock retard problems, who are you going to use?

    The Hype Man or the Calibrator?
    Awesome!
    Full Service GM Late Model Performance Facility

    www.redline-motorsports.net
    Follow US on FACEBOOK!
    Follow us on Instagram! redline_motorsports


  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nicul15 View Post
    Ill help where I can.

    The boundary errors: they check only within themselves. If you have an obscure value it will throw out the whole thing within that boundary. Forcing you to start over

    My question: do you adjust vve and maf in the idle areas while in gear, rolling, or while actually idling?
    Guys this one piece of info would help me. Do I let it idle when doing maf only in idle Hz? I know if I do this it would idle better but I want to do this the right way not the easy way.

    Looking to let the ecu calculate things properly as possible. I’m not looking for a shortcut I feel like I’ve flashed this thing a million times in the last month, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel
    Last edited by nicul15; 06-06-2019 at 09:58 AM.

  16. #36
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,299
    Quote Originally Posted by nicul15 View Post
    Guys this one piece of info would help me. Do I let it idle when doing maf only in idle Hz? I know if I do this it would idle better but I want to do this the right way not the easy way.

    I just want to let the ecu calculate things properly as possible. I’m not looking for a shortcut I feel like I’ve flashed this thing a million times in the last month, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel
    I prefer to let it idle in the maf cell rather than drive through it.

  17. #37
    Thank you!

  18. #38
    Advanced Tuner Ghostnotes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by nicul15 View Post
    Ill help where I can.

    The boundary errors: they check only within themselves. If you have an obscure value it will throw out the whole thing within that boundary. Forcing you to start over

    My question: do you adjust vve and maf in the idle areas while in gear, rolling, or while actually idling?
    Thanks for getting back. I kind of figured that and I guess its something we can't really see. I always kind of figured that and thats why early on when i was copy/pasting so I would always copy a VE to a blank excel spreadsheet.Because I did notice early on that some zones are different within the same model/year even. I have even gone back to the original file to start over with the same results

    This is the last piece of the puzzle for me.......for now. The car runs great on my MAF tune. No surging anywhere, but when I do the few low rpm scans before it screws up and run both, you can tell it is more polished, more in regards to the throttle response. The low speed lag just went away.
    I always tune VVE....
    2016 C7 M7 Z51
    Callies ultra billet crank
    Callies ultra billet rods
    Diamond pistons
    Jhonson high speed lifters
    Ported and polished headwork
    Custom cam
    YSi-V7

  19. #39
    Advanced Tuner Ghostnotes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    471
    One thing i just now noticed....

    I'm running a 3 BAR MAP so i set my VE table accordingly. If I set it to a 1 BAR map the problem goes away but does me no good since I'm boosted.

    What am i missing???
    I always tune VVE....
    2016 C7 M7 Z51
    Callies ultra billet crank
    Callies ultra billet rods
    Diamond pistons
    Jhonson high speed lifters
    Ported and polished headwork
    Custom cam
    YSi-V7

  20. #40
    It would be awesome if Howard could get Greg B. in here to assist