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Thread: HELP! Losing sanity over L99 swapped NNBS PE/Timing bugs.

  1. #1
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    4

    Angry HELP! Losing sanity over L99 swapped NNBS PE/Timing bugs.

    Ill start by giving some detail about this cluster **** that I put together to daily.....

    07 NEW Body Silverado RCSB. It was a 4.3 auto. This being the first year it does NOT have FPCM.
    L99 out of a 13 Camaro
    4l60e out of a 3rd gen(have a 6L80E that Ill deal with swapping in later)
    e38 ECM and wiring harness from an 07 Tahoe

    Engine:
    L99 manifold, throttle body, injectors, knock sensors and random sensors stayed in place, 3rd gen MAP sensor, O2 sensors and MAF sensor from the Tahoe,(bought brand new MAF)TSP L99 VVT-2.2 Camshaft (#25-TSPL99VVT-2.2) 227/239 .629/.629 113 LSA
    Full DOD delete hardware, polished intake side, exhaust side ported a little
    Off brand 1 7/8 long tubes and y pipe into single magnaflow and turn down right before the rear tire
    Cheap aluminum intake
    3k stall(more like 2800)

    3.73s with Yukon LSD

    Fuel system:
    OEM L99. Almost sure they are 42s so that's whats in the tune. Again there is no fuel control module in this truck
    Aeromotive FPR set at 56-58lbs
    Walbro 450
    6AN send and return braided lines

    I think Ive covered most of the important stuff but if I missed something Ill gladly cover it.

    Im not a pro at this. Mechanic by trade but Im very familiar with HPT and tuning principles. I lack experience and trying to figure this out the last 2 weeks without reaching out for help has left me with a major headache. Before I make a bonfire out of this thing I came here lol. Ok, on to the tune history...
    A very reputable tuner here in Alabama put in on the dyno and made a couple of 2nd gear pulls and one 3rd gear pull. The 2nd gear pulls went lean at 5000 so we let off and went to adjust. After making some ridiculous PE commands (1.2-1.3 up to 5k and 1.45) from 5k up) we did a 3rd gear pull. Made it to 4800 RPM and the driveshaft decided it didn't wanna be a thing anymore so it twisted into 2 pieces! Made right under 400 FT LBS on the 3rd gear pull before the DS said goodbye. It looked like light at the end of the tunnel at that point. Im going to get it back to the tuner sooner or later but his dyno is down right now. So I replaced the shaft with a custom build and went to make some street pulls which Ill post the Tune and Logs for below. NO matter what I did I was getting a consistent timing drop of around 10 degrees dead on 4900 but quickly went back to normal. Ive driven myself crazy trying to figure out why and made change after change with no positive result. This was done in MAF only modes. Fuel would go lean at the timing drop but eventually correct(had to command 1.45 just to achieve that) BUT power was gone! It will pull through the range but its like it couldn't recover. When it hits 5900-6k all of a sudden power is restored and it pulls hard as hell for a couple of hundred RPM in which its time to let off! Out of curiosity I tried SD mode and commanded 1.45 further back in the RPM range to 4k to fuel cut. I believe I disabled the VVT as well but cant remember exactly. The timing drop moved to 4950 RPM and only dropped .5 degrees however at 5600 it dropped 9 degrees and this time recovered very slowly compared to the spikes I was having before. Timing came back to normal at 6k exactly this way. Keep in mind this whole time there is NO knock retard reported in the log. So maybe Ive got something going on that's keeping knock from reporting but I cant figure out where to go from here. The street pulls were made in 2nd gear for obvious reasons. Also the converter was unlocked if that matters as Im not sure. So to recap no matter what changes Ive made Im hitting this timing issue.

    There are so many parts and sensors from different vehicles in this truck and I had no decent base tune to start with so theres no telling what I might have missed or just flat out got wrong. Fueling tables where just best guesses. I tried to use Camaro fuel tables as a base and adjust accordingly but every 4th gen has a FPCM so everything is variable and Im just fixed fuel pressure so Im sure its not perfect. VVT tables probably need a lot of work. Im still working on the VE tables. They are close but not complete. I had help with timing tables from the tuner so they are at least a good base. The truck idles and runs great with the lone exception of WOT. It goes off the rails. Im actually gonna refer to this as the time I dealt with tuning "wide full retard throttle". That said couple of things stick out to me that may or may not be a factor...
    Ive tuned the MAF in detail trying to correct the problem and had the error percentages sub %1 in ever HZ cell. Looking at the logs though the MAF looks very unstable higher in the RPM range. The peaks and valleys can go vary %10-%20 consistently. Also based on some of the other 4th Gen Freq. tables Ive noticed this that mine seems high. Ive seen some where the 10k freq its usually around low 200 g/s. Mine at 10k freq. is in the 300s! Mine even takes around 12 g/s to idle. Kinda makes me think theres some scaling that I should've done or something but it def doesn't seem right.
    No idea if Torque model tables can cause this but I didn't mess with them.
    Pretty sure my knock tables are about as accurate as guessing the winning power ball number.
    I cant rule out a faulty/slow PCM as a buddy gave this to me and we cant account for its origins.

    Again Im amateur at this. Ive never actually tuned anything 4th gen either and its a lot different from 3rd gen stuff imo. It may be something obvious to some of you so don't assume the basics have been covered. Assume an idiot has been tuning the truck ha.

    Im attaching 2 tunes and 2 graphs and naming them to correlate with each other. Ill also post the tune when it was dynoed but I have no graph saved on account of the aftermath confusion. Both logs had LTFTs off because I was probably doing so fuel adjustments. Im using an AEM canbus wideband and the log is reporting in AFR but CMD Lambda is also recording. One of the logs is sorta long but the wot is toward the end. ANY feedback would be a lifesaver and greatly appreciated.
    Attachment 88189Attachment 88190Attachment 88191Attachment 88192Attachment 88193

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    17
    Im having trouble as well with timing dropping 9-10 degrees randomly at cruising steady. You can feel the truck surge in and out of power. It always happens in quick blips. I hope someone out there can point us in the right direction

    ps: attachments aren't working on my end.

  3. #3
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    4
    Hmmm, I just downloaded them and opened them. If anyone else is having problems Ill re upload them.

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    17
    I don't have any answers, but it sounds like you're getting turbulence in the maf at higher rpms (cam issue/valve float?)

    I too have an l99 that randomly drops timing and bucks.. speed density tuned. Can't seen to figure it out.

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    16
    I cannot download your attachments. Was going to look at it, but have no way to do so. Don't know if it is just me or if anyone else has been able to.

  6. #6
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    4
    Looks like I accidentally stumbled upon the problem yesterday. Engine>Fuel>Cutoff>.... cmd torque delta & commanded torque. I wasn’t aware these were active. I’m not even sure how to cut them off without maxing out the table so that’s what I did. They are torque limits gear by gear. My torque coefficients weren’t dead set but pretty close and was reading about 25 ft lbs high at 4900 rpms versus the actual dyno numbers. Anyway once it went over the cmd torque delta it was hitting a spark cut. After maxing the tables to 6,042 it pulls through the range as it should. Even more importantly the Commanded EQ in PE matches the wideband EQ and AFR. I dont know if could be anyone else’s issue but I’d say look into it!