Keeping IMRC on '18 manifold swap

[nukefission]

New to HPTuners. Searched on here and found several threads about the 2018 intake manifold swap on a prior-year s550, but most describe what it takes to adjust the tune with IMRC locked out. I want to keep IMRC.

I've made the appropriate open/closed voltage adjustments, and verified that all vac connections are correct per the Lund writeup. Used "true" PnP CMCV adapter harness from VMP. I'm using the IMRC and SD tables from a 2018 (except for IMRC config, where the MPs are assigned the same values as the 2015 but in reverse order (26 to 0 instead of 0 to 26).

What'll happen is the IMRC will work properly for a couple pulls then stop working. By stop working, I mean it will remain at closed voltage (1.45v) at all times and the car feels like a pig under load (long runner config). Often when it stops working it will pull IMRC closed in the middle of a pull, then throw a "stuck closed" code shortly thereafter (P2006/2007).

After disabling those DTCs the IMRC seems to function properly and will keep working through multiple pulls without crapping out. This seems like more of a hack than a true fix, as I have to imagine there's a way for IMRC to work properly in this application while keeping DTC functionality.

Any ideas on what could be causing IMRC to work for a bit then decide to quit working? Could I be bumping up against some other limits causing ECU to shut off IMRC functionality? Maybe the voltages are just outside of range and it's tripping things up?

Tune and log attached:
2018-intake-on-2015.hpt
IMRC-woes.hpl

Thanks in advance.

[txtailtorcher]

since you copied and pasted tables from an 18 the control algorithm could be different. I would try copying into an excel file and then recopy and paste into your current file to avoid any background code that's being copied unintentionally.

[veeefour]

New to HPTuners. Searched on here and found several threads about the 2018 intake manifold swap on a prior-year s550, but most describe what it takes to adjust the tune with IMRC locked out. I want to keep IMRC.

I've made the appropriate open/closed voltage adjustments, and verified that all vac connections are correct per the Lund writeup. Used "true" PnP CMCV adapter harness from VMP. I'm using the IMRC and SD tables from a 2018 (except for IMRC config, where the MPs are assigned the same values as the 2015 but in reverse order (26 to 0 instead of 0 to 26).

What'll happen is the IMRC will work properly for a couple pulls then stop working. By stop working, I mean it will remain at closed voltage (1.45v) at all times and the car feels like a pig under load (long runner config). Often when it stops working it will pull IMRC closed in the middle of a pull, then throw a "stuck closed" code shortly thereafter (P2006/2007).

After disabling those DTCs the IMRC seems to function properly and will keep working through multiple pulls without crapping out. This seems like more of a hack than a true fix, as I have to imagine there's a way for IMRC to work properly in this application while keeping DTC functionality.

Any ideas on what could be causing IMRC to work for a bit then decide to quit working? Could I be bumping up against some other limits causing ECU to shut off IMRC functionality? Maybe the voltages are just outside of range and it's tripping things up?

Tune and log attached:
2018-intake-on-2015.hpt
IMRC-woes.hpl

Thanks in advance.

Lund write-up is not 100% correct for 2018 manifold - mostly mechanical part.

I did four 2018 manis so far and all of them are working fine with IMRC like stock.

The problems you are experiencing are well known to me. Not only it "hangs" the IMRC at low voltage and stays there but it also disables the KNOCK advance without any DTC.
It's not something HPT does wrong, the problem is on Ford's side not being able to correctly diagnose the IMRC problem.

Hint: 2018 IMRC position sensor is different.

[nukefission]

It's not something HPT does wrong, the problem is on Ford's side not being able to correctly diagnose the IMRC problem.

Hint: 2018 IMRC position sensor is different.

I figured it was something like this. I take it you either swap position sensors or give it different values for open/closed position (angle)? Open/closed voltages I was working with were 3.39/1.45 respectively.

[veeefour]

You can use 2018 position sensor - you need to rework your IMRC sensors values. That function was added in HPT some time ago.

[dsandahl]

I am chasing the same issue. Copied the 2018 IMRC values and they still will not open. veefour can you share any details on what values you plug into the 2015?

[bbrooks98]

I've been helping Nukefission since he lives close. So far from what we tried you need to copy the IMRC 2018 map points config over to the 2015 as they are inverted from the Gen II cars along with the open and closing voltages. We also had to keep the DTCs disabled for p2006 and p2007 and everything worked fine. Without them disabled it would function up to the point of a pending code being set and when you'd clear the code in the scanner it'd function as intended again. I suspect that it's taking too long to close in certain areas after a long pull and some monitor we don't have access to is set to flag it as stuck or maybe just tuning the IMRC load closing point could solve this too as it seems to deliberately take a few seconds to return to closed?

One of the interesting things I noticed since I don't get to mess with S550s too much was that the IMRC is commanded to open as soon as you go into OP mode even if you're in the sub 2500ish RPM range. Granted this car is tuned to enter OP mode at a lower rpm range than stock, but while looking through some of Fords patents for the IMRC controls it seems as if they intended to use them mostly for partial throttle torque improvements and fuel savings? IMO I'd think that there is torque to be gained by tuning this to open at a later RPM while in OP mode too?

[veeefour]

You don't need do disable any DTC - the fact you have a DTC means something is wrong. Either mechanical or parametric.

No need to copy IMRC tune values(load) - stock 2015 load for opening/closing are OK. Honestly this mani can work without any tune in 2015 - more less.

You guys need to look in the REAL 2018 tune, the one from Repo Eric posted is a demo file. I'm talking about position sensor values.

I would post one of the 2018 tunes I pulled myself but as a workshop I can't post any tunes from customers publicly after RODO as they contain a VIN.

There's no torque to be gained form IMRC - at least not much. It's there to help emission and fuel economy.

[bbrooks98]

You don't need do disable any DTC - the fact you have a DTC means something is wrong. Either mechanical or parametric.

No need to copy IMRC tune values(load) - stock 2015 load for opening/closing are OK. Honestly this mani can work without any tune in 2015 - more less.

You guys need to look in the REAL 2018 tune, the one from Repo Eric posted is a demo file. I'm talking about position sensor values.

I would post one of the 2018 tunes I pulled myself but as a workshop I can't post any tunes from customers publicly after RODO as they contain a VIN.

There's no torque to be gained form IMRC - at least not much. It's there to help emission and fuel economy.

You're probably right about no real gains in TQ. I had my mind set that it was a dual length runner that I'm used to in other platforms till I read how it works. It's nothing more than an extra set of individual throttle body blades that restricts the runner and increases air speed. The increased airspeed might be worth a tiny amount, but nothing compared to a dual runner manifold I had in mind and probably becomes a restriction rather quickly.

[nukefission]

You guys need to look in the REAL 2018 tune, the one from Repo Eric posted is a demo file. I'm talking about position sensor values.

Someone posted a presumably real 2018 tune in another recent thread, and the IMRC values look completely different than what I would have expected, particularly the open/closed voltages. We have not tried these yet.

2018_imrc.PNG

[nukefission]

For reference, these are the values we've been using to date.

imrc2.PNG

[veeefour]

You're probably right about no real gains in TQ. I had my mind set that it was a dual length runner that I'm used to in other platforms till I read how it works. It's nothing more than an extra set of individual throttle body blades that restricts the runner and increases air speed. The increased airspeed might be worth a tiny amount, but nothing compared to a dual runner manifold I had in mind and probably becomes a restriction rather quickly.

This has been used in motorcycles for like 2 decades - they called it "secondaries" back then.

I've seen some people claiming IMRC and variable runner length are the same thing - especially on FB groups. Of course that's not correct.

[dsandahl]

Attached are two files, one is the IMRC settings that I am running on the 2015 (copied from 2018 tune). the log file(about 2/3 of way through you can see a few gear shifts pulling past 5K rpms) where the IMRC are not opening.

It looks like I am staying in map point 8 for some reason. If I manually open the IMRC, I am pulling map points 14 and beyond.

any ideas what is preventing these IMRC from opening? thanks for the help!

[nukefission]

Someone posted a presumably real 2018 tune in another recent thread, and the IMRC values look completely different than what I would have expected, particularly the open/closed voltages. We have not tried these yet.

2018_imrc.PNG

We tried these and they seem to work, even with the DTCs turned back on. So the winning combination seems to be 2015 IMRC config settings, 2015 load for opening/closing tables for each VCT mode, and 2018 sensor config settings -- as veeefour and a few others have said. The trick was just getting the correct 2018 values from somewhere.

[Thatwhite5.0]

Attached are two files, one is the IMRC settings that I am running on the 2015 (copied from 2018 tune). the log file(about 2/3 of way through you can see a few gear shifts pulling past 5K rpms) where the IMRC are not opening.

It looks like I am staying in map point 8 for some reason. If I manually open the IMRC, I am pulling map points 14 and beyond.

any ideas what is preventing these IMRC from opening? thanks for the help!

You're staying in mapped point 8 because of your distance tables and IMRCs not opening. If your IMRCs are closed, you're never actually going into OP so 14+ MP will not weigh. If you have stock distance tables, they're requesting MP 21, IVO 0, EVC 20. Since the IMRCs are closed, you're weighing into the MP with the same cam angles. MP 8, IVO 0, EVC 20.
There's your weight answer.
I dont have my laptop with me, what is your OP theresholds set to?

We tried these and they seem to work, even with the DTCs turned back on. So the winning combination seems to be 2015 IMRC config settings, 2015 load for opening/closing tables for each VCT mode, and 2018 sensor config settings -- as veeefour and a few others have said. The trick was just getting the correct 2018 values from somewhere.

I have a couple of 18 files, I can send you one if you doubt yours.

[dsandahl]

I am still having issues with the car not opening the IMRC. I confirmed I am getting into OP.

you can feel that once I hit ~3500 RPM the car just dogs and is lacking air flow(because the IMRC stay closed).

not sure if it matters, but the tune I am starting from is the Ford performance power pack Stage II. (MAP points actually mirror stock, the FRPP tune looks to have major adjustments in the borderline spark tables. The tune was great on the car with the 2015 intake. I am now running the 2018 intake with a GT350 TB and intake and 47lb injectors. The updates I did in the tune are the new injector calibrations, the 2018 IMRC settings and lowered the OP thresholds to 50% throttle above 3000 rpm.

If I set the IMRC to manual in the tune, the car will run great up top. I do drive this daily so want the IMRC functional for fuel economy.

I attached a 3rd gear pull.

I am new to tuning the coyote so appreciate any help.

thanks

[Bill88stang]

You can still get great mpg with them locked out, I ran the 18 intake locked out and did not loose any mpg, I now run a ported boss and still have great mpg.

[RSlo]

We tried these and they seem to work, even with the DTCs turned back on. So the winning combination seems to be 2015 IMRC config settings, 2015 load for opening/closing tables for each VCT mode, and 2018 sensor config settings -- as veeefour and a few others have said. The trick was just getting the correct 2018 values from somewhere.

So in summary you were able to leave most things the same but the key was the voltage and offset of 1.6/42.2 and there corresponding open/ close angles??? I’m in the middle of upgrading to a Procharger P1X and the manifold and was wondering the best way to go about keeping IMRC or locking out. In other wards the least cumbersome to tune. Thanks!

[nukefission]

So in summary you were able to leave most things the same but the key was the voltage and offset of 1.6/42.2 and there corresponding open/ close angles???

Yes.

[RSlo]

Yes.

Thanks. I’ll try and give the PNP connectors a shot.