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Thread: 2018 Camaro LTG - torque management

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGS View Post
    Daily here. Cam cover leaks and noisy crank seals. Cracked pistons, injectors, hp fuel pumps, water pumps, etc..
    It is related with the subject? Please explain or say nothing?

  2. #22
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    Emily89 - I think of them as just another torque management section needing to be adjusted for mods/performance. They can make the transmission shift a little odd or act weird if you raise them to high sure and since the new gen ecms are all toque based if things dont match up the ecm will wig out. So the idea is to not get carried away with them but raise them just enough to get the desired results you are looking for that keeps the ecm happy. But these tables also inhibit max torque because even though your telling the ecm you want to see lets say 500 ft lb torque request in the normal torque management section for peak,brake and overboost the ecm will check that against your virtual torque numbers and determine yes or no to what your asking. That's atleast my understanding and take on it. Maybe someone else will chime in and add or correct anything ive said. But as I said in a earlier post, I couldnt get my Cruze to go above 15 psi taper down to 12 psi or so which was about 200 ft lb actual or lower I believe vs my 500 commanded and now with the virtual torque changes I boost up to 20 psi at 350-375 ft lb actual vs my 500 ft lb request taper down to 17 psi and actual stays around 350 by the end. the threads i saw about it where in the gen5 section
    Last edited by TCSS07; 04-28-2019 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #23
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    Thank you for that TCSS07. Much appreciated explanation of function. This information would fall into line with how the ecu seems to act regarding other things. Seems everything has to "agree" or be very close to what car actually is doing or wants. Very interesting. I wonder if I keep blended vve/maf I assume should modify at both in virtual torque. I also wonder how e85 table plays into this, as I use that fuel. Must make some changes and go drive to log.

  4. #24
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    No problem. You will want to adjust the virtual torque for the map based section as well but dont forget to do a,b,c and d. I didnt alter any of the multiplier charts. I just adjusted the charts that effect the actual virtual torque numbers. Keep the changes the same across the board to keep things normal so to speak and make sure you read the description first of which chart your about to change
    Last edited by TCSS07; 04-28-2019 at 05:09 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    Emily89 - I think of them as just another torque management section needing to be adjusted for mods/performance. They can make the transmission shift a little odd or act weird if you raise them to high sure and since the new gen ecms are all toque based if things dont match up the ecm will wig out. So the idea is to not get carried away with them but raise them just enough to get the desired results you are looking for that keeps the ecm happy. But these tables also inhibit max torque because even though your telling the ecm you want to see lets say 500 ft lb torque request in the normal torque management section for peak,brake and overboost the ecm will check that against your virtual torque numbers and determine yes or no to what your asking. That's atleast my understanding and take on it. Maybe someone else will chime in and add or correct anything ive said. But as I said in a earlier post, I couldnt get my Cruze to go above 15 psi taper down to 12 psi or so which was about 200 ft lb actual or lower I believe vs my 500 commanded and now with the virtual torque changes I boost up to 20 psi at 350-375 ft lb actual vs my 500 ft lb request taper down to 17 psi and actual stays around 350 by the end. the threads i saw about it where in the gen5 section
    You got 350 torque out of a Cruze? Upgraded turbo?
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  6. #26
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    I'll post the log if I still have it tonight or I'll just make another one. But the it's just ecm torque not actual

  7. #27
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    Oh ok I understand. I've had similar situations with displaying well over 200 tq on a 1.4 and over 400 tq on a 2.0
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
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    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  8. #28
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    its calculated torque and if the models arent correct then the values are off too. i also believe the calculation is crank torque but dont quote me on that.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  9. #29
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    Yes sir, pretty much take them with a grain of salt. I dont rely on those numbers for anything really other than showing me if the ecm is allowing the increase in power or not.

  10. #30
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    Using tips here, today I log. I adjust for blended as suggested, I also adjust the E85 portion as I read that if active, ECM will pull from e85 table here in virtual torque. Im left to wonder if that is correct.
    The numbers inside of HPT, torque and Horspower formulas, are now very higher. I do not feel the car picked up this power though. This presents a problem for me as I use those numbers to decide if I gain power with changes. They appear accurate before changing virtual torque.

  11. #31
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    Do you have a Camaro as well? Or different car? and did you make any other changes to the turbo boost section at all besides the vt tables? Post up your tune file as well

  12. #32
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    boost - I cant find the log and tomorrow im doing the wifes oil change so ill have her car. But weds I will do a log and post it up. Also I would like to inform you that I have another 2017 cruze p0300/misfire cy1. Imagine that
    Last edited by TCSS07; 04-29-2019 at 09:33 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily89 View Post
    Using tips here, today I log. I adjust for blended as suggested, I also adjust the E85 portion as I read that if active, ECM will pull from e85 table here in virtual torque. Im left to wonder if that is correct.
    The numbers inside of HPT, torque and Horspower formulas, are now very higher. I do not feel the car picked up this power though. This presents a problem for me as I use those numbers to decide if I gain power with changes. They appear accurate before changing virtual torque.
    i wouldn't monitor calculated values for hp and torque. i believe one of the values for this calculates torque through finding bsfc and using that to find fuel load which can be turned into what you are looking for. the downside here is bsfc fluctuates wildly with changing ethanol content. if it was fixed then it may not be so much of an issue.
    monitor ve lb.hr and/or maf lb/hr to tell you if your moving more air into the engine.
    to help verify if an airflow gain is good then you need to monitor your acceleration over time. use the scanner time bar and monitor vss speed on the scope channels. record time at a set mph and compare it to another set mph. most recommend pulling 3rd from 2600 to redline in a stock turbo car.
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 04-30-2019 at 09:33 AM.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    boost - I cant find the log and tomorrow im doing the wifes oil change so ill have her car. But weds I will do a log and post it up. Also I would like to inform you that I have another 2017 cruze p0300/misfire cy1. Imagine that
    Lol, all good my friend! Good luck with that.. haha
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    i wouldn't monitor calculated values for hp and torque. i believe one of the values for this calculates torque through finding bsfc and using that to find fuel load which can be turned into what you are looking for. the downside here is bsfc fluctuates wildly with changing ethanol content. if it was fixed then it may not be so much of an issue.
    monitor ve lb.hr and/or maf lb/hr to tell you if your moving more air into the engine.
    to help verify if an airflow gain is good then you need to monitor your acceleration over time. use the scanner time bar and monitor vss speed on the scope channels. record time at a set mph and compare it to another set mph. most recommend pulling 3rd from 2600 to redline in a stock turbo car.
    I will give that some shots. I had not considered the error in my previous way, it did seem very consistent. Your way looks much better, and repeatable for accuracy. Thank you for tips!

  16. #36
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    yeah looking at the maf or ve airflow would be the tell tale if your making more power or not. the virtual torque tables are merely more charts than may be limiting you from making the boost/power your requesting if there isnt anything else limiting you such as knock air mass,torque management,etc. if your getting the boost your commanding then raising the virtual torque tables probably wont do much
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-01-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    A few things I noticed.

    Under engine diag - for tests p0068 set to max to disable and for p0101,p0106,p0121 set min ect to 493. These tests can cause reduce engine power. For tuning purpose or having no converter or like me just because. The catalyst test can change commanded afr at times for no reason other than performing a ecu test. It will however stop the ecm from running the catalyst test for emissions testing if required where you live so you'll have to set p0420 to no error reported which you already done so id say just disable it.

    Under engine - If your going to do any tuning to your car for the airflow models you need to put them in their individual modes. Maf only and ve/vve only. Otherwise you'll get conflicting data. Read up on maf and ve/vve tuning. I choose to run maf only on the vve ecms - my preference. Unless you can 2 Bar OS to which you get actual ve chart and don't have to deal with the coefficients. When it comes time for wot tuning you will want to disable all the fuel adders like piston protection and turbo over temp and such as they will add fueling and alter the base afr/lambda and you have a built in wideband which is nice.

    For torque management - set peak, brake, overboost and default trans to 500. I see you already raised DD which is good.

    Torque management boost control - boost max limit - put that back to factory. It is a safety net for the ecm to never go above that. It doesn't limit. Pressure delta factor controls boost ramp in but may also limit you in terms of max boost achieved so add 20-25% to that. You do that by putting 1.2(20%) or 1.25(25%) in the box, highlight the table and click x. Knock air mass is a pretty powerful table as it is a boost limiter based off air mass allowed vs spark. Some people go about this table differently by keeping a factory style feel but for tuning and how I leave the chart is like this. I set the rows to all one solid number but keep the taper style from low rpm(smaller air mass) to higher rpm(larger air mass). So like 1600 rpm is all .8, 3k is all 1.2, 6900 is all 1.5. Not actual numbers. Just giving you an example of how I layout my knock air mass table. You don't need to get all crazy with the numbers to achieve desired boost as it can make the ecm freak out so make small changes and save different files so you have a good working back up. Some will say its not safe to do it that way and that is true it may not be for beginner tuners however if you know how to tune it will be fine. After you get a feel for everything then sure you can bring the numbers back down to a more reasonable range for safety and or piece of mind but I don't like the ecm to have any say in what I want it to do but again that's me.

    Airflow/turbocharger - over speed limit min - drop that down some. 2.0 should be fine. It can limit boost to a point but it's mainly there to stop a over boosting condition from the target boost you're after. So you're asking for 20 psi but it spikes up to 26 psi because your over speed safety net is to high and couldn't catch it for example along with having a high max boost chart. Things can go bad like that. Put the wastegate base dc back to factory for now. Adjust that as the final step to fine tune boost if need be. You usually don't have to mess with that to get desired boost. Pressure ratio max can limit upper rpm boost. So for pressure ratio max no chart cell - set that to 5 but leave the pressure ratio max based off mass airflow at your 3.6 for now and adjust later if need be. Remember again you don't need to get all crazy with the numbers to achieve desired boost.

    Virtual torque is probably what is holding you back from making the boost that you want to make. It was on my Cruze LE2. Again drop that max boost chart back to factory. I'm going to attach a print screen of the difference of my virtual torque tables on my tune compared to factory for my cruze. It boosts up 20 psi then tapers down to 17 psi. Let me know if you don't know how to open compare files and look at the difference between the two or if you need me to explain more. I wrote alot. Like I said earlier I run maf only so the changes are made to only the maf portion of the virtual torque tables only. If you run a blend tune or vve only you will have to adjust those as well. My maf virtual torque tables A,B,C,D in the attachment all have the same difference in them to maintain the factory layout and then tweak from there. You can find the virtual torque tables up in "Edit". Its right under VVE (Virtual Volumetric Efficiency). I make the changes in the actual torque model/general because then I don't have to hit make new coefficients which changes the entire table when all I want to change is the higher up rpms cells. If you want to go ahead and make the difference of your tune file against your stock file the same as mine go for it but you will need to go in maf only mode. Again make small changes to see how the car reacts and also so you can get use to how the tables work within the program and save new files often.

    Attachment 89188

    Edit - made a couple typos and forgot a couple things. after you make the virtual torque changes, open up the actual virtual torque charts and you can see the changes made. Also make sure you make the changes to all the tables A,B,C,D because its based of VVT Cam Degrees also. Everything I said is for starting out you may need to raise torque management higher to meet your needs since every vehicle is different but you will come to learn that these new ecms like harmony. Blend tune is using maf and vve for fueling.
    Thank you very much for the help!

  18. #38
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    id love some advice for my 2018 2.0. zzp intercooler
    zzp wastegate atuator
    zzp large throttle body
    cold air intake
    need help tuning please
    Last edited by wiley35; 08-05-2023 at 11:33 AM.