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Thread: Engine VS trans torque management

  1. #1
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    Engine VS trans torque management

    I'm using HP tuners MPVI2 pro and I need to know exactly what perimeters will influence the power while shifting. Can anyone tell me?



    There are different menus for engine and trans torque settings and after hours of searching I cannot find any info on this very specific question. Perhaps only the trans TM will influence it?



    Vehicle: 2003 Denali - CATs deleted, MAF deleted, 4" cold air intake

    Goal: put 100% of the power to the ground while in gear but drastically reduce the power while the transmission is in the process of shifting - interested in fast shifts (don't care what they "feel" like)

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    If most of the transmission TM is still active, it will still pull timing on the shift and that is what you want.

    For the most part the engine side TM usually always gets cut way back or set to the max settings so it won't limit power while under WOT situations.

    You shouldn't have any issues doing that here, get your shift times around .300 and bump the line pressure a touch and it'll be shifting pretty good. Well, as good as a stock 4L60e (65) can.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  3. #3
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    Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction (Normal for normal, Performance for tow/haul mode)

    That is the table that determines how much power to pull during a shift. This table is percentage of engine torque to pull during a shift event. I do not feel like it reflects actual torque very well, at least on my LQ4 truck, but try adding 10% to this whole table and see how it feels for you. If you really want the fastest possible you could set this whole table to 100% and lower the minimum spark (more below) -- I tried this on my truck for a bit but eventually changed it back to something a little more civil. Part throttle shifts were pretty choppy at that setting (full throttle shifts felt nice though). You can also use this to set up shifts differently in tow mode, use tow mode like a sport button.

    Abuse mode on that same screen protects from driveline shock / neutral drops. It may engage while in gear from a stop as well, not sure on that. I always disable it and set the RPM very high (4000 or so).

    Trans > Shift Pressures > Upshift (Normal for drive, Performance for tow mode)

    This one controls the trans line pressure during the shift. My truck has a 4L80, but I run the tow mode pressures in the normal table as well.

    Engine > Torque Management > Spark Retard vs Torque Reduction

    This is the table that actually changes how much timing is pulled based on the torque reduction request. Use this along with the first table to determine / control exactly how much timing is removed.

    Engine > Spark > Advance > Minimum Spark > Spark Retard Limit

    If your timing pull gets too high, you may run into this minimum timing value. Stock value on my truck is -10, I probably wouldn't go lower than -15.

    Engine > Torque Management > Abuse

    I always turn the abuse RPM way up here as well. Not entirely sure when this limiter kicks in, but raising the RPM to 4000 or 5000 will probably get it out of the way.

  4. #4
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    Thanks!

    I actually zeroed everything related to TM both engine and trans but the trans cant handle full power shift so this info is perfect because the result of removing TM is excellent, the truck pulls hard in first like it never did before but without adding the TM back for the actual shifts the trans would clearly not last long at all.

  5. #5
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    I'm doing this same strategy too, 2006 E40 though so the settings don't directly relate. But shift time is reduced to 0 (scanner shows WOT shifts still last right around 0.3s, bone stock 60E in a heavy-assed LWB Envoy), shift pressures raised slightly, about 10% across the board. WOT feels great. It used to do an awful double-bump 1-2 shift and shift time was 1.0s(!) when stock, all that's gone now. Delivered Torque falls to ~30lb/ft during WOT shifts, the stock tune kept it up over 200 (while the shift was dragging out for over a full second!).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    I'm doing this same strategy too, 2006 E40 though so the settings don't directly relate. But shift time is reduced to 0 (scanner shows WOT shifts still last right around 0.3s, bone stock 60E in a heavy-assed LWB Envoy), shift pressures raised slightly, about 10% across the board. WOT feels great. It used to do an awful double-bump 1-2 shift and shift time was 1.0s(!) when stock, all that's gone now. Delivered Torque falls to ~30lb/ft during WOT shifts, the stock tune kept it up over 200 (while the shift was dragging out for over a full second!).
    Im sending you a PM about your settings Blindsquirrel

  7. #7
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    Here's the stock file with just the related trans stuff pasted in: 2006 Envoy 12612557 - trans TM settings.hpt

    With the stock tune. Note the double shift. The timing ramps back in before the shift is completed.
    trans.1-2.before.png

    After. Timing drops lower than stock, doesn't come back up until it's established in the next gear.
    trans.1-2.after.png

    Truck has 210k miles on it, it got a new long block at 99k in 2011, but according to the VIS it's never had any transmission work since new.

  8. #8
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    Well my magic trans settings all of a sudden reverted to the long ~1second 1-2 shifts for no reason I can figure. Timing was still being pulled to -19* or so. It did this out of the blue, working on one drive and not working the next (several days apart).

    With the Shift Timing tables all 0's that should have disabled all the adaptive stuff but apparently not (I did not change the adaptive drop-down to Disabled). Re-flashing an older file where I know it was shifting at .300 didn't fix it. Made a new file with Shift Timing at a flat .250 for 1-2 & 2-3, and cleared the adaptives in the scanner and it's back to shifting fast again, don't know which of the two fixed it. If it flakes out again we'll see if just clearing it brings it back down.

  9. #9
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    I wonder if you have an internal trans issue rearing up, maybe a clogging filter or dropping fluid level or something. Just something to consider

    With my aftermarket converter the shift times never showed up properly (it would always say like 3 seconds or something) so I Just turned off adaptive and adjusted the pressure until it felt right,
    then added torque management to stop the tire spin.
    The way we should be doing it is with a pressure gauge on the trans, but who has time fo dat !

    Then I raised the boost to 14psi and now no amount of TM will stop the tire spin lol. so yeah it's not always super helpful

  10. #10
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    To answer your first question for more power at shift you want to reduce timing reduction at shift. To do this go to Trans > Torque Management > Upshift > Torque Factor. Stock is 1.0000. Reduce this number to raise timing at shift. For example for the 1-2 change to .75 for approximately 25% less timing reduction.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
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    Pretty sure I don't have a trans issue, it's still able to complete the WOT 1-2 in .3 seconds - and I increased the shift time from 0 to .250 and made the 1-2 shift go from ~1s to .3s. If the shift times were gradually getting longer and longer and nothing I change would bring them back down, then I'd be worried about the internals.

    Fluid is clean and temps are never out of line. I'm hoping I just created some kind of conflict by requesting 0.00 but leaving the adaptive drop-down enabled. We'll see, it'll either go goofy again and I'll figure it out, or it won't.

    'Shift time error' is the PID that never reads right, 'time of latest 1-2/2-3/3-4 shift' gives what looks like realistic numbers though.


    I would love it if there were a table that controlled the duration of the torque reduction, as it is the duration is fixed (or there are tables we don't have access to) and the only workaround is to make the trans shift quick enough that it's finished before time runs out and timing ramps back in.