2019 Charger Scat Pack Cammed cannot get it to idle on ANN, but runs great on VE

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

Hello,

This will be my first Dodge that I am tuning (usually do Fords). Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

2019 Charger Scat Pack
stock injectors
Long Tube Headers
MDS Delete
Phaser Limiter 7 degrees
MMX NSR Stage 3 Camshaft NA 201-000-17
Intake Exhaust
Lift .595 .557
Duration: 268 285
ICL: 109
LSA: 112.5

@.050 Duration: 220 232


I am having the hardest time with ANN tuning with this particular setup. When I go to start it and log, it will fire up, then die right away.
To get it off my lift, I disabled neural network to get it running and idling and to get it on the dyno. I tuned the vehicle on speed density and made 435HP/426TRQ, but also noticed VVT was not moving.
From my understanding, I needed to dial in ANN to use VVT. Turned Nerual Network back on and again, start up and dies immediately. I noticed on my dyno wideband it was dumping a lot of fuel (11.3) so I proceeded to pull fuel out and try to get it idle and I've had no luck on getting it to stay running. I cannot even take a long enough log to read fuel trims. I feel I'm missing something significant that will correct this issue. I have attached 3 maps. one when I dialed it in on speed density and the ANN map I was trying to make from the stock map I have, along with the stock file.
2019 Charger Scat Pack 6.4L Stock Map did not read tcm.hpt
base set.hpt
base NN.hpt

[06300CSRT8]

do you have a log of the start up with NN off and then a log of it firing and running with it on?

[timskmperf]

well do you just wanna leave it in speed density or you just trying to figure out how to tune it in ANN

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

Sorry I had to open up the shop

I would like to use NN to use VVT to get the most out of this 6.4L with the vvt cam, unless there is a way to use VE and VVT.

I Have taken 3 logs
One VE and 2 NN
The NN started up cold and idle hunted and worsened when warming up. Is this mainly in the INJ PW vs FUEL MASS and vice versa or is there an adder somewhere else I need to address?

I'm sure when this starting and idling issue is resolve, it'll be pretty straight forward here on out. I'm hitting a brick wall with NN on Startup and idle

warm start NN.hpl
NN cold Start.hpl
startup VE.hpl

[Blue Bee]

Turning off NN should not disable VVT. You got something else going on. Done plenty of VVT setups using VE. You need to straighten out your idle tables, you have them a little goofy. Now that it's a cammed car you need to enable the sensed map and set PR low, like .01 so it looks at actual map instead of the "calculated" table (that we don't have access to-in HPT anyway). Log TB voltage and get it opened up for more air in the idle areas for sure.

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

Okay then, I will continue on VE and address the idle tables, make the changes and continue the dyno session. I appreciate the inputs and I will report back with results and/or anymore questions.

[Robert00MustangTurbo]

Got VVT working on VE and everything is falling into place. Still need to adjust to fix the idle hunt, but good to go from here!

Thank you

[JWM_Jankowitz]

Hi, just want to double check on your statement... To still be able to use my VE tables do I need to enable or disable Sensed MAP? Do I also need to enable or disable Barometric learning. What is PR? Pressure ratio? Which PR setting needs to be adjusted to 0.1?

Yes, I'm a noob ;-) Learning a lot from these forums.

Thanks for any help.


Mouritz

[06300CSRT8]

Hi, just want to double check on your statement... To still be able to use my VE tables do I need to enable or disable Sensed MAP? Do I also need to enable or disable Barometric learning. What is PR? Pressure ratio? Which PR setting needs to be adjusted to 0.1?

Yes, I'm a noob ;-) Learning a lot from these forums.

Thanks for any help.


Mouritz

Only switch that turns on or off your VE tables is the entire neural network disable/enable switch. Sensed map, baro learn, all do their own thing, not related to be able to tweak the VE tables.

PR = pressure ratio, by math that is the intake pressure divided by the barometric pressure, expressed as a ratio.

The ECU has a threshold for when Sensed Map kicks in, if you have it enabled, its rated by a pressure ratio. Above the ratio you input (i.e. higher boost or intake pressure) the ECU will switch to actually looking at the sensor instead calculating its value.