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Thread: Comparing FRPP tune to stock tune, trying to understand the differences

  1. #1

    Comparing FRPP tune to stock tune, trying to understand the differences

    I apologize if I'm posting too much lately, I'm trying to learn by looking at the differences, and then searching the forums for answers.

    I notice that the OS info is different from a FRPP 2 tune I found on a thread in here compared to my stock tune. The FRPP has the OS listed as FPGM05K and my OS is FPGM05K. From what I've seen this is sometimes called the strategy, and Lasota's cookbook kind of went into it. I see that some people said that some OSs are better than others, and some people made it sound like you could change it for 6 credits. I still don't know how that would work because the VIN would be off. Nevertheless, I know that the FRPP kits don't swap the PCM hardware itself, it just uses the procal tool, which seems very similar to flashing like we do, or possibly flashing the firmware that the software we tweak relies upon. Am I understanding this correctly? Maybe some OS's have things that haven't been identified in VCM? I saw one reference to someone saying that they copied all of the values from each table off a FRPP tune to a stock OS and the car didn't run right.

    My impetus for the above question is that I notice on all of the FRPP tunes I've found is that the piston rattle table is zereod out, and the per-cylinder knock is enabled instead of the global in mine. I don't want to "enable" something that the underlying firmware doesn't know how to handle the change. Because I don't want to sacrifice performance if it's just a tweak FoMoCo did to quiet harmless piston slap or a knock technique that is outdated. Likewise, since the FRPP tunes use per-cylinder knock, it would seem to me that one could maintain a higher spark advance and just pull timing from the funky cylinder instead of using the funky cylinder as the bounds for knock on the entire bank. I found references from 2017 where it was suggested that per-cylinder spark is a bad idea for a car with 2 knock sensors, but I don't know if the FRPP knock changes were known, and if the posters would have changed their mind if they knew FRPP felt confident enough to use it on a warrantied vehicle.

    I know that I can zero out the tables (Thank you Thatwhite5.0), but it's things like that, that have me curious.

    I know there are a lot of other tables that are changed related to torque and basically the entire spark section is different, but I think I understand the concepts behind it, so I won't bother y'all about that. As usual, thank you all for your help. Hopefully I can pay it forward in the future. For what it's worth, I'm not aspiring to be a tuner, I just want to learn and tune my car to the best of my ability.
    Last edited by Mustang; 05-11-2019 at 01:57 AM. Reason: wording, wanted to give credit to Thatwhite5.0
    Sorry for asking a lot of probably stupid questions, I'm trying to learn. Thank you in advance for any information you have provided me

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner
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    If you open your stock file and open say a ford pp2 or Pp3 you will notice some tabs will show up greyed out and they don’t show any data in the compare feature. This is due to hp tuners not having the access to things in the “background” of the tune. So copying things From a roush or a ford racing cal sometimes does not work due to that. This is why many just change the os strategy which requires the 6 credits, you are basically flashing that strategy to your car, then read the strategy then you can mod it as you want, then flash your new modded strategy back to the car. Hope this helps, this is a great place for info. I learned a lot just reading and reading on here before I made a single change to my tune file last year.

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training
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    I'm always interested in learning stuff by examples and the FRPPs are a good Source. Just wondering what they did on the M-9603-M8 PP1.
    Would love to have a look on it. Because its a Stock parts tune and I would like to know what the engineers have done there without changing Parts (except the K&N Filter).

    Its only an Octane tune (Engine wise) I guess, but who knows what they have done additionally to get their self stated 13HP and 40lb Torque out of it?

    Maybe someone have a dump, ideally for the GT15?
    Last edited by nonnex; 05-12-2019 at 07:39 AM.

  4. #4
    Thank you very much Bill88stang, that really helps explain it a lot. I'm trying to change a few things right away (All of it related to a loud cold start idle) but anything that has to do with "power" (playing with spark, WOT settings) I am going to approach very slowly.

    nonnex, I found a FRPP2 file on here the other day for a '15 GT. It's not a perfect match, but the only "hardware" that is changed is the MAF tube and throttle body (And I suppose you could say the filter too). So someone else told me to ignore the tables that have anything to do with the throttle/maf. I looked for quite a while and couldn't find the FRPP1 tune. If you don't have the FRPP2 file, I can re-post for you if you like. The thread I got it from said it was stock, but I have no way to guarantee it.

    Thanks guys,
    Sorry for asking a lot of probably stupid questions, I'm trying to learn. Thank you in advance for any information you have provided me

  5. #5
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    FRPP3 borderline spark maps work well for 91+ octane on my 16 GT running the FPGP6KS strategy.

  6. #6
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    Your welcome, I haven’t see anyone post a pp1 file to the if any difference besides maf period and tb data for the gt350 that comes with the pp2. If you want to quiet down the cold start you can just max out the 3 cold start tables to 55 and it will help a lot.

  7. #7
    Thank you both! I did max out the tables, and it helped a ton. I'd like to get the idle down - I have played with the idle speed settings (Set at 675) but it still follows some other table I can't find. The Lasota book said idle was in the driver demand tq tables, but didn't say which ones and kind of glossed over it. I have a feeling that I need to tweak the load tables, but I haven't logged it yet to see which ones it uses (But even then, would lowering the tq lower the idle?).
    Sorry for asking a lot of probably stupid questions, I'm trying to learn. Thank you in advance for any information you have provided me

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Thank you very much Bill88stang, that really helps explain it a lot. I'm trying to change a few things right away (All of it related to a loud cold start idle) but anything that has to do with "power" (playing with spark, WOT settings) I am going to approach very slowly.

    nonnex, I found a FRPP2 file on here the other day for a '15 GT. It's not a perfect match, but the only "hardware" that is changed is the MAF tube and throttle body (And I suppose you could say the filter too). So someone else told me to ignore the tables that have anything to do with the throttle/maf. I looked for quite a while and couldn't find the FRPP1 tune. If you don't have the FRPP2 file, I can re-post for you if you like. The thread I got it from said it was stock, but I have no way to guarantee it.

    Thanks guys,
    Thank you. I have pp2 and pp3 already. I was just interested in the pp1 because I havent found one either and of course to complete the tripple in my collection.

    How ever, would be interesting to take a look into.

    PP2 could be close, but taking the complexity and relations "only" because of the changed MAF for the TB and intake into account it could be more then just the air and throttle section touched because of this and each PP1 - PP3 have different rpm max. Therefore I would love to see their PP1 strategy just plain with stock parts without data noise for other parts mixed in and I hate guessing, nothing to learn from it.

    Plus, PP1 could be a perfect starting point for N/A-Tuning basics to learn what and why, esp. for beginners like me. After that my (or our) understanding of PP2 and PP3 may be improved. The K&N+OEM Intake with a Mishimoto Silicone Hose and a Velossa turns out to be my winning combo after couple of years of CAI mania anyway.

    I dont want to buy a PP1 only for making a dump in the end. Or maybe I would do it, but I've read that the PPs can't be loaded on EU spec Gt's (wich I have) with procal so... -.-

    'And you may be right about the strategies, just take the "no lift shift" thingie. Maybe I'm wrong, but I havent found any other tunes then the PPs throu Fords Procal tool that turns that on. Either it does it throu a new OS, or only changing parameters in the existing one, but which we dont have in VCM today to see it.

    Hell knows what the native PPs+Procal3 really do in deeper code layers which we can't access conventionally (atm or never).
    Last edited by nonnex; 05-14-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  9. #9
    Did anyone ever find the PP 1 tune? I was curious about it as well. The PP2 kit is actually a really good deal at around $600, but I?m not a huge fan of the GT350 hot air intake.

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training
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    I actually have a PP1 tune on my 2017 manual car. I just unfortunately don't have an MPVI device anymore. I'd be more than happy to let someone read it with their device and load it to here if anyone is near me

  11. #11
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    I'd love to read it, where are you located?