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Thread: LSJ WB VE Tuning

  1. #1
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    LSJ WB VE Tuning

    I have an 04 Saturn Ion Redline running E85. Full mods with 2.8 pulley. Last winter I tuned it and fuel was 74% ETOH (not flex fuel capable). Im running DW300 fuel pump with Fuellab BRFPS with ethanol sensor read by interceptor gauge. Im running ID1000 injectors at 42psi. Everything was going well and now with spring/summer blend it is now 80%. I have changed my commanded stoich and calculations and ready to retune VE and MAF tables to not run so rich. It still runs decent, but STFT are rich. I've turned LTFT back on to help until better tuned, and am going easy on throttle.

    So needed some help and advise and problems with HPT. I'm trying to fail MAF and tune VE with my WB, but after I flash it and start the scanner it still reads MAF frequency. Here's what I have done. Let me know what I'm doing wrong if any:

    1. Engine Diagnostics
    a. MAF fail at 0 Hz
    b. Min and Max ECT to 493 degrees
    c. DTC P0101, P0102, P0103, P1101 set to not report
    2. Engine
    a. Airflow. Dynamic airflow RPM disable and re-enable set to 8192 (pushes into closed loop)
    b. Fuel
    1. Closed loop enable set ECT vs. Startup ECT to 300, delay to 32767, and O2 rediness ECTto 400 (shuts off STFT)
    2. LTFT max out min and max ECT to 493 (shuts off LTFT)
    3. Open Loop Gains. Set all tables (Gas/gear:P/N Gas P/N: IVT Gain Gas: EQ ratio min) to 1.0 (changes fuel from high/low octane tables)
    4. My commanded stoich is 10.1422 and my PE table is set across the board to 1.250
    5. Temperature control. COT tables to 0 and temp thresholds to 7405 (turns off cat protection. I'm running catless anyways and leave this off)
    6. Piston protection maxed to 8192 to turn off during tuning
    c. Spark
    1. Copied high to low octane to force to read always from high
    2. Base corrections all zeroed out to not adjust octane tables (piston slap, fuel, ICT, ECT, EGR, catalyst)

    When I flash it and start scanner (after at 170 engine temp) I don't see STFT and LTFT, but I still see MAF frequency measured and graphing. What I'm trying to do is force into closed loop, no MAF input, and tune with my WB the VE table with WB error in my histogram.

    What am I missing? Any and all help is much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    I'd say make a seperate tune for colder weather and summer weather so all you have to do is flash it when the time comes so your not always tuning. You need to set the maf dtcs to mil on first error not no error reported. It will still read the maf because its plugged in but not use it for fueling. You can also just remove the pid so it doesnt log it. You wont get fuel trims since you disabled them which you need to do in open loop tuning so it doesnt screw with the data you get
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-16-2019 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #3
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    Perfect. Yeah, that was my plan was to do a summer and winter tune. I was having cold start up issues on the winter tune, but never really had time to mess with it, plus the clutch went out and I just finished getting a GMPP clutch installed. Installed a 2 post lift to make my life easier So, it's been a process.

    I was thinking it would still read the MAF, but not use the data. Glad I confirmed this before chasing my tail

  4. #4
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    Remove 25-30% from the cranking fuel fa table. It should help with that. Since your running e85 you dont need so much cranking fuel anymore because by default e85 uses 30% more fuel

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    Ill give it a shot. Thanks

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    If you see your scanner is showing open loop then remove the maf hz channel. If its plugged in it still reads a signal just doesnt use it. Remove the channel to prevent confusion

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    Ok, I have been VE tuning this week and have logged idle and cruise logs up to 4000RPM. My thought is I want to tune the VE as best I can as a failsafe, but plan on MAF tune only. Would someone be so kind as to tell me what, if any I'm doing wrong. I'll attach the past cruise logs in scanner and editor. When you look at the VE table from idle to 4000 RPM in 1st through 4 gear, the table looks off to me. It just spikes up. Didn't know if I need to smooth it or not? Is it supposed to do that?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
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    Im mobile right now but the ve should be pretty smooth but if your doing a maf only tune for the final tune then tuning the ve is kind of irrelevant in terms of the car using it for fueling because when you put it in maf only mode it wont use the ve for fueling and also since it's in maf only mode if the maf fails ever the car wont run and it wont default to the ve chart because the ecm has been told to only use the maf
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-22-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  9. #9
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    Edit in mobile always seems to delete my comment idk. Extending on my previous comment. If your going to run a blend tune then yes making sure ve is correct matters
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-22-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    the lsj ve table cannot be expanded on so eventually at a certain power level you will notice the airflow axis of the ve table becomes an issue. You will need to activate the maf blend before your application exceeds the VE table to keep fueling consistent. At this time the maf sensor is the only way to tune applications that exceed the VE table axis limitations.

    If you ever do a lsj swap into some random application just forgo the oem ecu and go straight to an aftermarket solution. its not worth the hassle in these cases to struggle with the oem solution.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  11. #11
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    Yeah, I've read the P12 ECM is only partially available.

    Is there any range put in dynamic airflow to allow VE to run idle if that is better, or just shut off and MAF only?

    Would also be nice to have flex available too, but alas I have to manually enter periodically

  12. #12
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    ive been running maf only for the past 4 years no problems. I out run the ve chart by 3500rpm so its pointless for me to run it. im also cammed with a ls4 tb and ve just made things way to touchy. Maf seemed to keep things smoother/stable at least for me anyways. If you want ve to stay active for idle then set the dynamic airflow to like 2000 disable and 1900 re-enable so anything under 2k it will use maf/ve

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i personally tune as much of the ve as possible so if something happens i have a known good fallback table. after that was completed i just tuned the whole maf range and left it in maf only. if there was ever a problem it could be driven to me for repairs without major issue.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  14. #14
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    Really? Even in maf only mode? I'm just asking because when I put cars in maf only and pull the maf connector the cars stall out because it doesnt see the maf. Now I could be wrong but I just assumed its because its in maf only so even if the maf does fail you told the ecm to ignore ve completely so I wouldn't think it would default to it at all.
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-22-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Couldn't tell you...I've forgotten the disconnect effects in reference to lsj

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    cobaltssoverbooster, I watched your lsj tuning videos, great by the way!!!, if you have any time, would you be able to look at my VE tune and any future tune to give any recommendations for a noob? I'm starting my MAF tune now.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    cant really tell you because your fueling channels are kind of not set up to maximum benefit.
    1) you have two wideband channels.....both report lambda.delete one of them and leave the other one properly configured.
    2)Commanded AFR is a good channel to have but not for lambda tuning. you need to change this channel to commanded eq ratio.
    3) in order to tune ignition you need to be logging cylinder airmass (grams)


    once you fix/add these to your scanner then i can see more of what is going on.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #18
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    Will do. It will be a week out now. Leaving for vacation. When I get back I'll log and post results. Thanks

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    whats happens in vegas stays there...unless you scatter an axle all over the track but i wouldnt know anything about that hahaha
    enjoy your vacation mate!
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  20. #20
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    Got back in town and have tried to adjust and log some things.

    1. Deleted one of the WB channels
    2. Only kept commanded lamda
    3. I think I added what you were asking in logging air mass in grams. I was assuming this was the MAF sensor measurement
    4. In the tune I also decreased the cranking fuel by 25% to see if starts easier. Time will tell. Usually it will start cranking, pause and recrank on its own, then die. Then the second crank it will fire up. This time initially it cranked several times without firing. Next time it fired right up. Will see. Only happens with first start when cold.
    5. I attached the scanner log of the MAF tuning this morning. I also attached the tune file.

    Let me know how it looks. Haven't PE tuned yet.

    One thing I noticed this morning. When first starting up it was running very lean at idle (between 2100 and 2700 Hz) so I let it idle for 10 minutes. It was 16.88%, 21.97%, and 13.08% lean in these cells. I saved, copied, and added the full percent to just these cells logged and that is what my cruise3 tune starts at for these cells. When I started up it idled much closer to zero error. So I look at the log this morning and initially the first few cells were close to zero, but as I drove and had to coast to a stop it would go very rich. So I'm wondering if I should only change the cells from 3000 Hz onward while driving and not copy the whole graph because it causes the idle to be messed up. Later when STFT is turned back on, idle and part throttle can be handled better?

    Let me know if that's right or if I'm off track.Saturn Ion Redline 04 Tune 4.0 MAF cruise3.hplSaturn Ion Redline 04 Grey Tune 4.0 MAF cruise4.hpt