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Thread: Wow did I mess up!

  1. #1
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    Wow did I mess up!

    Hi all.

    So for some background, I swapped a 2006 engine into my 2003.

    It ran pretty well, but I wanted to make the timing, duration, and rail pressure as close to 2006 stock as I could. I thought I did pretty well, but looks like I failed!

    I had another issue with the truck, a failed transmission output shaft speed sensor, that was muddying the waters on my programming failure, so it was hard to nail down. Also, as unlikely as it seems, I swear the way the truck ran changed over time.

    Initially I loaded in a 'as 2006 stock as I could make it' tune into the 2003. It seemed to run fine, had a bump in power over the stock programming and I was pretty happy.

    Then one day it started to misfire above 2krpm with medium to heavy throttle applied.


    Not suspecting the programming, I did a bunch of work to the truck. Then I finally set the ecm back to bone stock 2003 auto and the misfire has vanished.


    So weird!

    I'll be reviewing my program to see if there is anything obvious. I'd like to post it and maybe get some ideas as to why this has happened.


    Chay

  2. #2
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    Here's the file I created.

  3. #3
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    Missing a lot of stuff to make it as close as possible to a 2006 tune. I?ve got most corrections in as far as visible parameters. I?ll finish it up tomorrow and post it for you.

  4. #4
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    Seriously? Dude that is above and beyond the call of duty. Thank you so much for your help

    Chay

  5. #5
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    No problem. I?m not digging into the hidden parameters, too many of them but I?ve got most of the visible stuff done, just pilot event left to finish up. I left post event out. Majority of people shut it off anyways on trucks that have it enabled from factory.

  6. #6
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    There are some differences between how the cm845 and the cm848 works, particularly with pilot event so I?m not sure how it will react with 2006 values

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    There are some differences between how the cm845 and the cm848 works, particularly with pilot event so I?m not sure how it will react with 2006 values
    Well I'll try it and see how it goes. I'll log the heck out of it.

    I did some more research on programming the 2003/early 2004 ecms and it seems that there are some consistencies through the various tuning platforms: When some users try to change timing (Especially increased timing) they get the popping/backfire at high rpm/load that I was experiencing.

    I did some data recording and with the stock 2003 program, it seemed that when I used the pedal position/rpm to determine the mm3 from the pedal table, then used the actual rail pressure to look up the duration, the scanned value was pretty close to expected. The timing wasn't though. For example, if the table called for 4deg, I was actually getting 11. Just one example at one datapoint. There must be a modifier changing things...not sure which one (or ones). It flashed temperature limited occasionally (Engine wasn't totally up to running temp in some cases).

    I think I'm monitoring the correct values, but there are so many choices to choose from. I'm trying to see the final output values of Desired MM3/Rail Pressure/Timing and Duration for the main shot. I used:

    '12 Main Inj Timing' from Specific Parameters/Engine/Fuel/Diesel/Injector Timing/ for the timing output
    '12 Main Fuel Rate' from Specific Parameters/Engine/Fuel/Diesel/Quantity for the main mm3 desired
    '12 Main Injector Pulse Width' from Specific Parameters/Engine/Fuel/Diesel/Quantity for the PW
    '12 High Pressure Fuel Pressure' from Specific Parameters/Fuel System/High Pressure System
    '12 Desired High Pressure Fuel Pressure' from Specific Parameters/Fuel System/High Pressure System

    I hope those are the output quantities, not some half way calculation. Hard to tell without more info.

    With programming I've done in the past, I feel like I had access to the entire ECM. It seems this is not the case with the diesels. I guess most would just need the ones that are made available to the user through VCM Editor.

    I understand what you mean by the tables being treated differently. Without an ECM simulator, or real world test values it's hard to know what will happen with the table quantities.

    Thanks for your insights, and I'll be very interested to see your table values.

    Chay

  8. #8
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    Your ?backfire/popping? is from too much pilot timing with the fuel going in.

    When trying to see where you are operating at in a specific table, say main timing, use your actual rail pressure and final fuel quantity, not your accel to fuel table. That table is user desired fueling to pedal position, it?s a base table that gets modified by the ecm to produce the final total fueling amount to be injected after it runs everything through the algorithms.

  9. #9
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    Here, this is more or less what an 06 has in the visible tables in HPT. Of course this isn't including non visible parameters and any difference in sensors scaling, etc. There's tens of thousands of parameters I would have to go through for all that stuff.


    green_machine_2003_2006engine_hybrid_stock_auto2019may15.hpt

  10. #10
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    Awesome thank you. I will try it. Your comment on the pilot injection definitely matches the symptoms I was experiencing. I was starting to round to that conclusion myself although I had no idea how to prove or disprove it other than trial and error


    I?ll let you know how it goes. Would it be useful to post a log file?

    I was thinking re the sensors that there should not be much to change. The sensors are identical except for the temp sensor. It is mechanically different but I ran it through some temp cycles with the old one and they seemed very close resistance wise. The only other thing that could be an issue would be if they changed the cam profile that the cam sensor picks up on. I did verify that the crank toothed wheels are identical



    Chay
    Last edited by cfoss1000; 06-16-2019 at 05:46 PM. Reason: A bit more

  11. #11
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    Sure post one up

  12. #12
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    Did you use a beta version of VCM Editor?

    I tried to load the file but it gives me an error:


    Unable to open file. Unsupported or newer version detected. Please up date your software.


    I am running VER 4.2.12

    I will update to the beta and see if that works.

    Chay

  13. #13
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    Looks like there is a 4.4.2 available. I will download and retry.

    Chay

  14. #14
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    The newer version on software allowed me to load the tune.

    It all looks very good to my untrained eye. I note the reduction in pilot timing, especially in the steady state region, and in the rpm/fuel ranges where I was having trouble.

    The one thing that sticks out to me though is the Main Pulse Timing Correction table: Start Angle Correction.

    Your table has values from 80ish down to 74. These seem like very large numbers compared to the stock 2005 table, with values in the range of .04, to -.55. It does, however look identical to the stock 2003 numbers.

    Can you elaborate on how this correction table works, and why we would want the 2003 quantities vs the 2005 quantities?

    Thanks,

    Chay

  15. #15
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    Wait, check that.

    Seems I'm having a brain fart of sorts.

    It seems your table, in the 2019may15 file you sent me, has the low numbers, .04 to -.55, in the Start Angle Correction table.

    Both the 2003 and 2005 stock file values are the same, in the range of 80ish to 74.

    Could you please explain the change?

    Thanks,

    Chay
    Last edited by cfoss1000; 06-17-2019 at 01:06 PM.

  16. #16
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    Beginning of this thread you said 2006. Everything I put in I pulled out of a 2006

  17. #17
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    That is true. The engine is a 2006. The closest stock tune I could find in the tune library is a 05 so I?ve been using that as a base tune. Shouldn?t 2004.5+ be pretty much the same??

    Chay

  18. #18
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    Like 98% the same

  19. #19
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    Biggest differences is in the transmission control. I?ll double that one parameter in a bit just to be sure I got the right one.

  20. #20
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    Well I tried the tune you sent me.

    Started it up and it's very lopey at idle, and light to medium density blue smoke from the tailpipe.

    For fun I tried to modify the start angle correction table the 2003/05 settings...that made it significantly worse...almost stalled at idle.

    So, I set the ecm back to full 2003 stock....smooth and no smoke.

    There must be some difference in early vs late ecm that are tripping this sucker up.

    I think I'll be better off to leave it alone, or at least to work slowly from what I have instead of a wholesale change.


    Chay