Ist try tuning VE with WB - would appreciate guidance

[55Belair]

Following advice received here I sprung for a WB and with information I found here I wired it through the EGR to my MPVi2. Knowing that the car was running lean, I added 10% fuel to the VE table and went for a drive today. Can someone take a look and advise if theses numbers are good enough to start tuning with or am I not seeing something. My goal is to get this engine to output it's full potential before considering if power adders will be added.

I posted a log file and a copy of the tune I used for this log. Thanks in advance.


Swapped 2000 LQ4, 4L80E, 873 cast iron heads have been swapped for 853's, truck manifolds, 2 1/2 inch exhaust, glass pack mufflers, no cats.

[5FDP]

I don't have your layout so I can't exactly see what you see with the EGR wideband. If you can make the afr error you should be just fine to start going straight at it.

If that first drive showed okay fueling like in the 14-16's, just go for it. If you are pegging the wideband lean at 17-18 all the time then adding more fuel to the entire VE would be a good idea first to see if comes down.

Start simple with part throttle, do several logs to square that away and then get deeper into the VE where you'd be at for wide open throttle.


Something you need to look at before you start going full throttle. Your knock retard channel is going to the maximum allowed 8 degrees, that is most often caused when there is a fault with the knock sensors or harness. See if you have a pending knock sensor code when you pull the DTC's. Sometimes even new parts will cause the code and I've had to just disable the code to prevent it from happening. I do test the sensors still though, normally by smacking the block with a mallet or small hammer just to see if it shows knock in the data log.

[55Belair]

Yes, fueling was in the 14-16 range while cruising and the car was pulling really well. Oddly enough, I think the 10% that I guessed at got me pretty close. I will keep tweaking it and then go for the WOT stuff. No pending knock DTC's. The knock sensors were replaced during the swap - of course this doesn't mean they are good! Thanks for helping.

[MarcusMilner]

Also, you need to set DTC"s, P0101, P0102, P0103 to Mil on first error to fail your maf.

[55Belair]

I was under the impression that failing the MAF was done my setting MAF Frequency Fail High to 0 HZ and that the DTC's codes just controlled, if/when you get as MIL. Or do I not have this right?

[MarcusMilner]

You need those 3 set to first error, plus the high fail to 0hz for it to go into speed density, and you need the low octane timing table to match the high octane table because it reverts to the low table when in speed density.

[5FDP]

You need those 3 set to first error, plus the high fail to 0hz for it to go into speed density, and you need the low octane timing table to match the high octane table because it reverts to the low table when in speed density.

This only applies to factory OS's.

He has upgraded to the speed density enhanced OS that will use the high/low timing tables like normal when the MAF is failed.

[55Belair]

Something you need to look at before you start going full throttle. Your knock retard channel is going to the maximum allowed 8 degrees, that is most often caused when there is a fault with the knock sensors or harness. See if you have a pending knock sensor code when you pull the DTC's. Sometimes even new parts will cause the code and I've had to just disable the code to prevent it from happening. I do test the sensors still though, normally by smacking the block with a mallet or small hammer just to see if it shows knock in the data log.

Glad to report I have the low RPM VE tuned to within 3-4%. I'm going to do one more small adjustment that will get me under 3% error (I'm hoping) Tomorrow I will be doing the WOT VE adjustments.

Concerning the KR channel, I've looked at the logs and the KR goes to the maximum for very short periods of time - 2 seconds in one instance, and seems to happen at random times. One time it happened while accelerating lightly, the other time was when I was cruising on the highway at a constant speed. This leads me to believe that the error is from the physical circuit and not from any kind of real knock the engine is experiencing. I suspect that cheap KS I bought off of Ebay may be the culprits. Too bad they are such a pain to replace.

[55Belair]

All done with the VE tables. WOT errors were very close, only took a couple of adjustments to get them where I want them. The difference in the car is remarkable. On to MAF tuning.

I set up my scanner as per the Video in one of these threads but I'm getting zeroes in my tables. Something is not turned on! Is there a place to share layouts so that we can compare our files to ones that work?

[ChopperDoc]

All done with the VE tables. WOT errors were very close, only took a couple of adjustments to get them where I want them. The difference in the car is remarkable. On to MAF tuning.

I set up my scanner as per the Video in one of these threads but I'm getting zeroes in my tables. Something is not turned on! Is there a place to share layouts so that we can compare our files to ones that work?

Which part are you having trouble with? MAF tuning?

[ChopperDoc]

Just guessing here, but perhaps you are at the point when you turn closed loop back on and tune the MAF table(s)? I show how to do it using STFT's (for non PE mode areas) because it can essentially save some time if WB and trims disagree. Since the PCM is going to use trims anyway in closed loop, might as well just tune the STFT's into range and use WB simply as a reference in these areas, not the correction. However, once you hit Power Enrichment (PE), you have to use the Wideband to tune that area. I show how to build both tables to do this. I'm assuming you are using one of my videos here lol.

In order for the STFT's (trims) to be on in the first place you must have closed loop enabled. The airmass model is irrelevant because trims will work in Speed Density or when using MAF, so long as closed loop is enabled.

To enable it, click on Engine > Fuel > oxygen sensors > closed loop.

Use stock values from a stock compare file. All shown in the video.

[55Belair]

I did indeed use your video to set up my tune for MAF tuning. The VE video worked like a charm, I've been sharing links to it on other forums. The trouble is that in MAF tuning the AFR error table does not populate with any numbers. At the end of a short run, the table was still blank. Also, the CEL was lit for the B1 O2 sensor being inoperative, which is expected as it was removed to install the WB. I deleted both the tune and the Layout to give it another try - must have skipped something.. Will post again on how it goes.

[ChopperDoc]

Tune your MAF with the wideband instead of the STFT method. Just use the WB as the correction. In the video I am showing how to do it with the STFT's for part throttle cruise areas because the PCM uses them to correct after the WB is removed. It's a pretty normal method to do this and makes sense since the WB in most cases is not a permanent install. Sorry for the confusion there.

[ChopperDoc]

I do cover the wideband correction in that video too. Normally you would do one thing at a time if you have to pull an O2 out to install the WB. Many tune using STFT's without going WOT and staying out of PE, then install the WB and do the WOT/PE areas. It's the same method as to plugging the numbers regardless which you are using for the AFR error, be it stock O2 or WB. You probably aren't seeing numbers due to the O2 CEL, which is likely disabling closed loop.

[ChopperDoc]

Maybe I'll redo that video to make it more clear, as I can see where the confusion lies now. Appreciate the feedback.

[ChopperDoc]

I am going to redo the MAF video this weekend to account for the fact that not everyone has the sniffer type WB or an extra bung in the pipe to read both WB and closed loop at the same time, as I am used to at this point. Don't want to get folks confused, and I will approach it as such, stock car with no extras or special equipment.

[55Belair]

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering how taking the car out of open loop with a missing O2 was going to work, now I know - it doesn't! LOL. I follow your instructions like following a recipe card when baking a cake. I don't necessarily understand all the steps when I'm doing it but by doing it I usually have the AH-HA! moment as I keep reading about and fiddling with things. I do appreciate all your hard work. If you were looking for a green beta tester for your videos you may never find a greener one than me! LOL

[55Belair]

Looking forward to the new improved video, in the meantime, I'll be running the car in SD, I rather like the responsiveness.

[55Belair]

Took the car out of SD, swapped out the WB for the O2 and went for a drive with the new VE table in the tune. I've attached the tune and log file, I will be moving on to MAF and Spark tuning but wanted to know if I am moving in the right direction. The FT's look way better but the O2's seem to be overactive, the KR pulling 8* of timing seems to have gone away. I have to get this thing some cold air cause the IAT is way high in traffic and stays high unless I get it going in clean air.

The change in the car is remarkable, can't wait to see what the rest of the changes bring. Comments?

2019-07-04 !st run New tune.hpl
CT 2019-07-04 New Tune (VE Adjusted only).hpt

[Ken84ls5.3]

did you do any upgrades to engine cam headers etc? im on the last stages of putting in transmission headers etc then purchase the HP Tuner 2 on a 2000 5.3 with 595/605 cam and trying to get educated and where to start on my tune already had 0411 ecu tuned to delete VATS and all other evap egr etc im a little worried I used flex fuel injectors on a 60 psi intank fuel pump and learn flex fuel injectors run off lower fuel pressure