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Thread: 2009 lsa cadillac after dyno tune? Criuse tuning help

  1. #41
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    You changes the TB to 90mm? If so your tune does not reflect that. It will also mess with the predictives. They will be off and cause some issues with throttle transitions.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  2. #42
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    Your ethanol calcs are off. 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline is 9.972
    Fuel Ratio by mass
    Gasoline 14.7 : 1
    Natural gas 17.2 : 1
    Propane (LP) 15.67 : 1
    Ethanol 9 : 1
    Methanol 6.47 : 1
    n-Butanol 11.2 : 1
    Hydrogen 34.3 : 1
    Diesel 14.5 : 1
    Methane 17.19 : 1
    Acetylene 13.26 : 1
    Ethane 16.07 : 1
    Butane 15.44 : 1
    Pentane 15.31 : 1
    Last edited by jsllc; 07-06-2019 at 02:39 AM.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    The other thing to remember on VVE. It is not SD or VE. What your see is a visual representation of the results of a formula. It has infinite salability within each zone. Zone edges are almost impossible to get perfect and variations between cells cannot be as dramatic as true cell based tables. It is meant as MAF smoother with predictive values on lower ranges and backup to MAF failure. To use it for more than that is asking for trouble.
    So tuning the VVE isn't as important as thought with a ctsv? I did some logging and tuning for VE and MAF today. Do I still follow steps to tune VE as outlined on this forum? Whatever im doing seems to be working! I am starting with 91 pump gas to learn on then later Ethanol stuff. I am going to drive more in the am when its below 105 degrees outside.
    Last edited by Dzz88; 07-06-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    You changes the TB to 90mm? If so your tune does not reflect that. It will also mess with the predictives. They will be off and cause some issues with throttle transitions.
    I did! I did tell tuner about it, but comment was its not enough to make a difference... Guess I got a basic ass tune and will just have to fix this myself. Where & how are these changes made?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    Your ethanol calcs are off. 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline is 9.972
    Fuel Ratio by mass
    Gasoline 14.7 : 1
    Natural gas 17.2 : 1
    Propane (LP) 15.67 : 1
    Ethanol 9 : 1
    Methanol 6.47 : 1
    n-Butanol 11.2 : 1
    Hydrogen 34.3 : 1
    Diesel 14.5 : 1
    Methane 17.19 : 1
    Acetylene 13.26 : 1
    Ethane 16.07 : 1
    Butane 15.44 : 1
    Pentane 15.31 : 1
    I may not be fully understanding 100% what table your referring to ?
    I did a lot of miles today and watched the Wideband very closely... Car seems to adjusted somewhat ok, even if its backwards? Help me better understand what's wrong and can it be fixed? I am also ok getting another full tune, by someone else. There are other people I am willing to trust with my ride
    Last edited by Dzz88; 07-06-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  6. #46
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    is this any better? lol
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  7. #47
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    [ECM] 2174 - should be set to 5640 for 90mm TB
    [ECM] 12300 - 14.67822265625 14.322265625 13.9658203125 13.60986328125 13.2529296875 12.89697265625 12.541015625 12.18408203125 11.828125 11.47216796875 11.115234375 10.7587890625 10.40283203125 10.046875 9.68994140625 9.333984375 8.97802734375
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  8. #48
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    FYI this tune is not going to give you what you want for e85. There are many things wrong but, again you are chasing your tail without good injector data.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    [ECM] 2174 - should be set to 5640 for 90mm TB
    [ECM] 12300 - 14.67822265625 14.322265625 13.9658203125 13.60986328125 13.2529296875 12.89697265625 12.541015625 12.18408203125 11.828125 11.47216796875 11.115234375 10.7587890625 10.40283203125 10.046875 9.68994140625 9.333984375 8.97802734375
    I found 6362 for the 90mm
    YEs I do see the values you posted and where they should be. I have no idea why mine are like they are.. Factory settings are just a bit different...
    Car is smoother for sure after todays runs. Throttle is nice, better transitions into boost
    Last edited by Dzz88; 07-07-2019 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #50
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    new changes..
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    FYI this tune is not going to give you what you want for e85. There are many things wrong but, again you are chasing your tail without good injector data.
    So please help me understand how it didn't blow up on the dyno at full throttle on E85? I guess I'm not seeing what changed from stock... I know not much, but yes injector data would help.

  12. #52
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    You are asking me to explain how you did not get sunburned on one day but you did on another. Impossible to tell. What I can tell you is you cannot guess on injector data. EVERYTHING depends on knowing how much fuel will be provided based on many variables. IE my Camaro uses voltages from 12.5 to 14.5 under normal conditions. Injector data tells the ECM what to expect under the various conditions
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  13. #53
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    So looked at this tune.

    TB is now set larger than 90mm
    Stoic for alcohol is not correct
    It is setup to use VVE until 3100 but VVE appears to be incorrect
    Some interesting adjustments to open loop IVT fueling
    Adaptive Idle spark is very aggressive
    Ethanol has interesting setup, goes from no adjustment until 75% ethanol and then jumps to 80% on timing.
    burst knock is removed
    knock senors are de-sensed
    injector data has some issues
    maf curve appears to have a very large adjustment ,was there big changes in the air intake?

    These are some things I noticed.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  14. #54
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    so I managed to get injector data input into tune last night. Tried this am on my way to work and its better driving but maf table is off along with VE for sure.
    By looking at open loop ivt stuff, from stock, only looks like guy smoothed the table out? IDK
    So what is the correct equation for finding TB size. I looked and only came up with number I have. NEED some help on that one. YEs I could input number you gave but that will never help me understand how that number came about.
    VE table is what the car liked at that time... Yes also NOW probably off tooo.. This is a slow process of learning, trial and error I guess.

  15. #55
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    [ECM] 2174 - should be set to 5640 (5636 to be exact) for 90mm TB or you can go with the area of 90mm circle which is not correct. As for math it has been posted many times. IF (big if) it is accurate. As none of us worked for GM pretty hard to know the math they used. But we are all pretty certain the if they used this value for the 90mm TB it is most likely correct. Here is a pic taken from a stock e38 with a 90mm tb.
    7-11-2019 10-21-52 AM.png
    Last edited by jsllc; 07-11-2019 at 11:27 AM.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  16. #56
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    No way your VVE should look like this.7-11-2019 10-15-09 AM.png
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeves No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6200 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6200 rpm
    998rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6200 rpm

  17. #57
    What he said. I happen to have my current tune open. Probably want to shoot for something more smooth. I took it to the extreme and smoothed it a bit more than it really needed, as I am very MAF heavy with my tune at the moment.

    vve1.jpg

  18. #58
    Advanced Tuner PGA2B's Avatar
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    Are you hand smoothing the VE table?
    2013 OBM A6 CTS-V Coupe
    Mods: 8.6 Lower, Spectre Performance CAI, SRI Ported THrottle Body, Billy Boat Exhaust, Stoptech Drilled & Slotted Rotors, EBC Redstuff, Cut Stock Springs, 6K HID Fogs, Full ATS-V Emblem Conversion, Full LED Conversion, Hard Line Delete W/ 3/4" Lines
    2006 Black Raven STS-V (Traded In)
    Fully Modded: 459RWHP@5888rpm/451lbft@4696rpm

  19. #59
    Sort of. In the driveability area, I just paste in the error data from the scanner then blend any odd areas either by hand or with the built in functions. In the boost areas and also above 4000rpm, I move areas/columns/rows of the table with multiplication to get it close and then blend with the built in smoothing functions

  20. #60
    Advanced Tuner PGA2B's Avatar
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    Well it sure looks pretty damn smooth...
    2013 OBM A6 CTS-V Coupe
    Mods: 8.6 Lower, Spectre Performance CAI, SRI Ported THrottle Body, Billy Boat Exhaust, Stoptech Drilled & Slotted Rotors, EBC Redstuff, Cut Stock Springs, 6K HID Fogs, Full ATS-V Emblem Conversion, Full LED Conversion, Hard Line Delete W/ 3/4" Lines
    2006 Black Raven STS-V (Traded In)
    Fully Modded: 459RWHP@5888rpm/451lbft@4696rpm