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Thread: 6.4 apache max cam settings ???

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    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    6.4 apache max cam settings ???

    hello car isn't making the numbers expected on several different dynos, a shop tuned the car previously and they don't ever tune mopars. was looking for some input on cam settings and how you think it is the current way they have it set and also anything else you think is missing. the car has a apache max cam , long tubes intake, exhaust and a larger throttle body. for all these mods you would expect the car to prob be around 500whp or very close to it. however its only around 450 hp. like I said 3 different dynos also. I think the highest one was under 470
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    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockstar9528 View Post
    hello car isn't making the numbers expected on several different dynos, a shop tuned the car previously and they don't ever tune mopars. was looking for some input on cam settings and how you think it is the current way they have it set and also anything else you think is missing. the car has a apache max cam , long tubes intake, exhaust and a larger throttle body. for all these mods you would expect the car to prob be around 500whp or very close to it. however its only around 450 hp. like I said 3 different dynos also. I think the highest one was under 470
    Initial thoughts of things to look at:

    Do you have the dyno, including AFRs? It appears a bit rich just looking at what is recorded by the O2s but a wideband will tell us for sure.
    What kind of dyno was this? If it's a Mustang, it's going to read lower
    What gear did you pull in? (looks like an A8 so it should be done in 6th) The scan has your mph up in the 130s so I'm guessing this is right.
    This cam requires a phase limiter but does Inertia proved exhaust cam position recommendations as well? I would ask them because your tune does not seem to be retarding this cam as the RPMs increase. I know my NA cam (different vendor) was to be installed straight up with 2* advance but follow the same retard of the cam through the RPM range.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

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    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    wideband was showing 12.0 -12.2 ish. dyno was a dynojet . they did it in 5th gear as I was told 6th gear would spin the dyno to fast ? and that 6th gear would give a even lower reading then 5th. the car does has a phase limiter as well. the car made more TQ then horsepower and early on. so assuming that would be a sign for me to advance the cam towards upper rpm range ? retarding it brings midrange? advancing brings in higher HP later ? also one last thing I have timing and fueling set for current cam positions if I play around with different cam settings should I revert the timing back to stock while testing that ?or ok with the way it is . again thanks for the input

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockstar9528 View Post
    wideband was showing 12.0 -12.2 ish. dyno was a dynojet . they did it in 5th gear as I was told 6th gear would spin the dyno to fast ? and that 6th gear would give a even lower reading then 5th. the car does has a phase limiter as well. the car made more TQ then horsepower and early on. so assuming that would be a sign for me to advance the cam towards upper rpm range ? retarding it brings midrange? advancing brings in higher HP later ? also one last thing I have timing and fueling set for current cam positions if I play around with different cam settings should I revert the timing back to stock while testing that ?or ok with the way it is . again thanks for the input
    Typically the opposite is true of cams. Retarded cam timing usually results in sluggish bottom-to-midrange, but improves power up top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    Typically the opposite is true of cams. Retarded cam timing usually results in sluggish bottom-to-midrange, but improves power up top.
    You are correct if you are talking about the Intake center line, but these cams are adjusted based on the Exahust center line. And since there is only one cam, what he stated was technically correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spoolboy View Post
    You are correct if you are talking about the Intake center line, but these cams are adjusted based on the Exahust center line. And since there is only one cam, what he stated was technically correct.
    Ah, gotcha. My lack of VVT tuning is showing through. Thanks for the correction.

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    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    so what would be the max advancement on the exhaust side I could set the cam 134* ?? and again while I'm playing around with cam adjustments should I revert the timing back to stock values ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockstar9528 View Post
    so what would be the max advancement on the exhaust side I could set the cam 134* ?? and again while I'm playing around with cam adjustments should I revert the timing back to stock values ?
    There's a thread somewhere (I'd have to go find it) where Hemituna talks about the cam timing max/min and what the limiter allows.

    The PCM accesses different timing tables depending on where the cam is. Have you changed them all?

    I don't know that I'd put them back to "stock", but I would be conservative with them. As the intake valve closes sooner, dynamic compression ratio goes up.

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    here is the tune file in question regarding cam settings for apache max

    thank y'all
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    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    not sure whose tune this is, but the cam setting are different.
    How is this cam? Good with a blower?
    Is this a true statement from their site?

    The cam behaves very well in day-to-day driving and both MDS AND VVT are still active.
    Increase the power of your 6.4L Hemi beast with Inertia's Apache MAX.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by coanan; 07-13-2019 at 12:16 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rockstar9528 View Post
    so what would be the max advancement on the exhaust side I could set the cam 134* ?? and again while I'm playing around with cam adjustments should I revert the timing back to stock values ?
    Set the exhaust WOT to 134 from idle to around 4,800 or so.... then retard the cam back 4-6 degrees to 128-130 by 6,500 rpms.

    If you find a dyno, you can actually retard it back until it doesn't make more top end power. Just keep it advanced to 134* past peak torque.

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    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    your talking about changing under 'EXHAUST CAMSHAFT , WOT DESIRED ANGLE ,BASE ?? I ALSO NOTICED HE CHANFED THE WOT DESIRED ANGLE AIRFLOW FROM 115 STOCK TO 118 ACROSS THE BOARD. and what about the desired angle "normal and max tip " ?
    noticed he also changed "exhaust camshaft , exhaust min from 93 to 118 . thanks for the help guys just confused on all the different settings here for cam

  14. #14
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    I have that cam, my tune is fixed had same issues... I'm 455/450 now I will send it if you want it

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    Cam Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by ShannonSRT View Post
    I have that cam, my tune is fixed had same issues... I'm 455/450 now I will send it if you want it
    Hi, can you please share that config with me.


    Thanks,

    Mouritz

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    FYI there are several links that give insight to VVT here (scroll down to VVT):
    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post525502

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    Tuner in Training rockstar9528's Avatar
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    yes I saw some of the write ups. but they say to advance the cam up until higher rpm then retard it slightly. when I try that I lose power on the dyne. got the car charger auto at 478whp right now and even tho I'm not showing and severe knock if I try playing with the cam retarding it up top I start to lose power and adding any more timing (up top I have close to 20 degrees I start to lose power slightly

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    Quote Originally Posted by spoolboy View Post
    There's a thread somewhere (I'd have to go find it) where Hemituna talks about the cam timing max/min and what the limiter allows.

    The PCM accesses different timing tables depending on where the cam is. Have you changed them all?

    I don't know that I'd put them back to "stock", but I would be conservative with them. As the intake valve closes sooner, dynamic compression ratio goes up.
    You mean this one?
    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...372-Can-timing

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    I want it please

  20. #20
    You realize that the apache cam only makes about from their website: "25-30 RWHP and 35-40 RWTQ gains over stock 6.4 VVT motor. "

    If the stock motor makes 421 hp on the dyno.. how much do you expect it to make with that cam?? Right about where you are now. Maybe you can pull a few more hp out of it but that also depends on what gas you're using.

    I recommend the HRT comp cams.. they make somewhere near 70whp+