truck idles higher when i put it in drive or reverse. why?

[razors4us]

just as the title says, when i put it in gear, it idles up. twin turbo 6 liter, summit stage 2 turbo cam. the tune is basically a copy of the dont bs me tune from the sloppy tune cabinet. it starts up awesome, idles great on warmup and at normal temp. but if i put it into any gear aside from park or neutral it instantly idles up until the stock converter stalls(around 900rpm i think)

whatcha think? iac counts seem really high to me. but then again, im still learning. GREGS TRUCK lq4 80e 60lb injectors 2 bar speed density.hptback from menards 2.hpl


im still working on the ve so im sure some things will look out of place

[5FDP]

Your tune is not exactly setup for a 6.0 engine size, so all of the calculations are kinda wrong. You need to be super careful when you copy other peoples work as it's can put your farther into a hole.

Change the cylinder volume back to a 6.0 engine size, it needs to be .74590 if I remember right. The computer thinks the engine is like 400+ cubic inches at the moment.

The in gear idle airflow is higher than the park values, might be a cause. Go back to stock 6.0 settings there if you ask me.

The under/overspeed spark correction tables need to be cut in half. With the camshaft you don't want to allow the computer to move the timing as much. You can see how it can jump the timing anywhere from -20 degrees to +16 degrees. Aim for +/- like 8 on each side.

Often times, the less you change the better off you are going to be. Kinda why copying tunes is frowned upon unless you know for damn sure it's going to work without a hitch. If something seems whacked with timing, go back to stock timing and create your own timing curve. Stock timing outside of boost is going to give you the best drive ability on just about every mild cam/turbo build. It just plain out works. The only area's that really need work is where it starts getting into boost, then timing should be toned down to a safe level for the boost and fuel the engine is running.

[razors4us]

oh wow yeah turns out that equates out to a 408. definitely not a 6 liter! i only copied the tune because with my factory tune it wasnt happy one bit idling. i figured it would be a decent tune to start with considering the engine it was for is supposed to be basically a stock 5.3 with a cam and turbo.... i figured id play with it until i make up my mind on where i want things under the hood and bring it to a dyno when i finally decide. if it becomes too big of a PITA to deal with ill just have to start over with a fresh copy of my stock tune and let someone more knowledgeable than me at it.

[5FDP]

Should be able to street tune that pretty easy, a dyno would show you actual power numbers and if the dyno shop was good they could go through the calibration with different loads on the engine.


Biggest things with setups like yours is making sure all the simple stuff is correct. Making sure fuel pressure is solid at 58psi or whatever you have the flow rate setup for. Making sure injector data is right for the injectors. With it being speed density and no o2 sensors at the moment, there can be zero vacuum leaks that could cause an idle issue. The MAP sensor data must match the sensor installed.

I don't tune for a living but I'm fairly local to you, would be easy to setup a good base line tune for it.

[razors4us]

well im sure we could set up a time for you to check it out. right now its cobbled together to get it driveable just to get it at least streetable. im avoiding getting into boost until i get an intercooler in it and get everything under the hood situated. im 100% certain i have no vacuum leaks though. the injector data on the other hand im not certain of. nor am i certain on the map sensor data haha. the injectors are a cheap set that seemed to work super well all last year with the stock cam and a single smaller turbo. hell i dont know. ill go through and get some part numbers together and just double check all of the data to be sure. i honestly can say i dont have any injector data for these though. when i called the company i ordered them from they gave me some random part number and said use the data from them..... the joys of cheap....


****edit*** i found a sheet with the injector data on it. but it seems like its missing some? i dunno. it wont upload it for some reason.

[razors4us]

TLF performance parts

t-412<<<<<im assuming their part number?
60lb injectors

static flow: 5ms @6000rpm 2.5ms@6000rpm
1 625 181 101
2 625 180 100
3 625 183 103
4 625 182 102
5 625 181 101
6 625 184 104
7 625 182 102
8 625 180 100
static flow tested at 43.5psi for 60 seconds
50% duty cycle and 25% duty cycle tested at 43.5psi for 60 seconds
impedance at 12.0-12.5 ohms


thats all i got for injector data. i had to type it out lol

[5FDP]

Unfortunately that information doesn't help a lot.

You'd need things like min injector pulse, short pulse adder, offset vs volts and the flow rate. Those are the main tables that get changed for data. Most of the major companies like Fuel injector clinic, Fuel injector connections, Injector dynamics, Deatchwerks all have that plug and play data. Sometimes you can get away with copying data over to get you closer but cheap injectors can be a struggle to get right.

[charcoal03silvy]

Start over with the stock file. I see so many people chase their tails trying to use the sloppy base tunes because they don't know what table changed that is causing them issues.

As a decent base to start with, search for the Krambo tuning guide. Pretty good quick and easy guide to follow to get going.

As far as injectors... the "data" posted above doesn't help a single bit as 5FDP said. They seem to rate that 60lbs at 43.5psi, so you'd need to convert that flow rate to pressure to 58 psi. You MIGHT be able to get away with finding the ford to gm injector data conversion spreadsheet that DSX tuning made, and plugging in the shorty deka 60 information into it to get something somewhat close. Might also land you in left field though.

[lukearmstrong1990]

zero out stall saver.

reduce your P/N base running airflow

be less aggressive in idle spark corrections

see attached file for reference in the throttle follower and throttle cracker sections. although this file is manual still look at the mentioned idle tables

final 395rwhp.hpt

[razors4us]

well i appreciate it big time guys. i really dont want to have to start over with the tune as the truck actually does run pretty good. the ve is coming along pretty well when i get the time to go out and log with it. the fueling seems to respond to exactly what i want it to with nothing super crazy going on. maybe i can just set up a time to bring it up to 5fdp and see what he thinks of how it runs. i contacted tlf performance and they told me that theres a formula i need to use in order to get the right info for these injectors. hell i dunno. we shall see i guess. i went and did some logging today and changed things up in the tune a little, its getting better the more i play. the idle seems much better now, i really dont mind the jumpy idle because of the over/underspeed tables being so far apart. it seems the more logging and adjusting i do the better it idles in gear, at least it doesnt drive off on its own now when i put it into gear. ill keep everyone updated with how it goes and lukearmstrong1990 ill definitely look into changing things up in those tables. it seems like when i let off the throttle while im driving it it doesnt quite let off all the way if that makes sense? im assuming its because of the follower/cracker sections. as i always say, thanks for the help guys. i really do enjoy doing this stuff. im just a hands on learner lol. i know what i want it to do, but im still learning how to make it do that with the software.

[lukearmstrong1990]

follower/cracker sections will influence the "drive on" or "rev hang" most certainly and is one of the places to edit to get your desired result.
timing also plays a big part. the difference between rev hang on coast down with 25 degrees timing and the same scenario with 10 degrees timing would be the rev hang gone.
idle and coast down can be altered with timing, don't be scared to use spark tables to help pull down or increase RPM.

Most tuners struggle with this and it drives me nuts. Before you open your laptop you should be looking mechanically at everything also. you cant tune out a mechanical fault. you have a stock converter and a reasonable cam. its going to push on the converter harder than normal, as it will drive on more noticeably with elevated idle RPM, less vacuum will make the brakes not as good also making the problem more present. the load difference between in gear idle and P/N idle will be far greater than normal also, meaning you're going to be at vastly different resolution scales for all idle parameters

[razors4us]

i get what youre saying lol. well i just got the "formula" that im supposed to use to set the injector data........ if you can call it that. im not impressed whatsoever....

How to Set Injector Flow-Rates and Set Injector Dead Times for Tuning your car or Truck
Anyone who as installed aftermarket injectors before probably ran across the issue of not having accurate injector dead time values to enter into their tuning software or having an engine run too rich or too lean using the fuel injectors advertised flow-rates. Having accurate injector dead time settings (also known as injector lag time or latency) is critical for a quality idle as well as maintaining air/fuel ratios when there are lots of accessory loads on the engine (ie: headlights, heater, etc.). Here is our recommended method for setting flow-rates and getting the dead times dead right:
1. Do a full tune using stock/OEM injectors with OEM injector dead times. If you are tuning a boosted car, etc. that the stock/OEM injectors cannot provide enough fuel for, just tune the idle and part throttle areas of the fuel and ignition maps fully.(This way you have a starting point)

2. Turn off all accessories (headlights, heater, stereo, etc.)

3. Hold the throttle steady at 3,000 rpm after tune is complete and take note of your air/fuel ratio. WRITE IT DOWN.

4. Allow the engine to idle and take note of your air/fuel ratio. WRITE IT DOWN.

5. Install your aftermarket fuel injectors.

6. Set your injector size setting in your tuning software to the new injectors' published flow rate/size.

7. Hold the throttle steady at 3,000 rpm and adjust the "injector size" setting higher or lower until you reach the same air/fuel ratio that you wrote down in step 3 above. Adjust the injector size lower to richen/increase fuel. Adjust the injector size higher to lean/decrease fuel. Upload or program the changes to your ECU and repeat this step until you reach the same air fuel ratio as in step 3. You will most likely end up with a value that is different than the published injector size, this is correct and not an issue.

8. Allow the engine to idle. Now go to your injector dead time/latency tables and take note of the injector dead time value for the voltage that you are currently seeing in your tuning software. For example, if you are currently seeing 14.0 volts, only adjust the box for 14.0 volts. Adjust the value in the box for the voltage you are currently seeing in your tuning software higher or lower as needed until you reach the same air/fuel ratio that you wrote down for step 4. If the engine is running richer than the value from step 4, decrease the dead time value. If the engine is running leaner than the value from step 4, increase the dead time value. Upload or program the changes to your ECU and repeat this step until you reach the same air fuel ratio as in step 4.

9. Turn on your headlights, heater, etc. to produce an electric load on the engine until you see your voltage go lower (ie: down to 12 volts). Now go to your injector dead time/latency tables and take note of the injector dead time value for the voltage that you are currently seeing in your tuning software. For example, if you are currently seeing 12.0 volts, only adjust the box for 12.0 volts. Adjust the value in the box for the voltage you are currently seeing in your tuning software higher or lower as needed until you reach the same air/fuel ratio that you wrote down for step 4. If the engine is running richer than the value from step 4, decrease the dead time value. If the engine is running leaner than the value from step 4, increase the dead time value. Upload or program the changes to your ECU and repeat this step until you reach the same air fuel ratio as in step 4.

10. You can now either calculate or interpolate values to the rest of the boxes, or you can work on other boxes by producing even further load (ie: disconnect the battery and allow the engine to run on the alternator only, etc.

You are all done. You can now enjoy your dead-on injector dead times and accurate air/fuel ratios. Happy tuning.

thats the exact process they sent me.... lol well shit..... maybe ill just send my factory decaps out to be flow tested and use those for now.


for now i guess ill just forge ahead with these as they do seem to be pretty close. gonna go log a little bit more and see how it goes. ill let you guys know