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Thread: Help making a Base map...L77 & 6L80E

  1. #1
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    Help making a Base map...L77 & 6L80E

    All,

    I am running into some serious issues with a base tune for my project. I am just trying to get it onto the road so I can get it to the exhaust shop and then the tuner. Below are the specs of the build, the stock tune I pulled from the e38 computer, and the base tune I am trying to make work...along with some logs with the base tune flashed. Thus far I have not been able to confirm fuel or spark, and of course it hasnt started yet.

    mechanical:
    2015 L77 and 6L80E from a Caprice PPV (Gen 4, 6.0L, 823 heads)
    BTR stage 2 PDS cam (future will have a blower on it)
    dual springs
    9.6 dished pistons
    DOD deleted
    LS9 head gaskets
    Gas pedal is now a 25835421 from a '12 Corvette, wiring accordingly
    otherwise original and freshened up
    Off the shelf harness

    Stock tune is below

    Base tune I am working on is below. I have tried to make the changes appropriately, but I am getting the impression that the tune is the only issue I have left to solve.

    MAF is deleted, so trying to run on SD, and converted the tune to SD & 2 Bar
    converted the MAF/IAT portion of the harness to run a 25036751 IAT sensor, 3 MAF wires still open
    2 Bar MAP, using the 16009886 sensor I was recommended
    harness was a VVT, but blocked off the 2 wires for that, and repinned for the original cam sensor
    DOD was deleted mechanically with plugs in the towers, but haven't made software changes
    injectors were cleaned, but are still the original short e85 ones (42lb I believe)
    pre-wired for a AEM UEGO 30-4100 into the AC pressure signal
    pre-wired for fuel pressure into the 'tanks pressure' pressure signal
    pre-wired for e85, just not connected to the sensor yet

    otherwise i believe that I have everything done.

    I guess I need to first confirm the cam sensor is working correctly...I see RPM in the log, but not the cam position...maybe it isnt getting a proper signal. Any way to log this?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    ~Ryan
    Charleston, SC
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    Last edited by rcodea1; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Set the MAF fail high to like 2hz and the low fail to 1hz under the engine diag tab. Set all 3 MAF dtc's to MIL on first error because you removed the MAF.

    Disabled the cat test while you are in the engine diag tab > exhaust.

    Upgrading to a 2 bar OS removed the stock VVE editor under the edit tab and now gives you 3 new VE tables under the airflow tab. They are labeled normal IMRC open/closed and DoD. These tables are not populated with data and the axis are flipped from the VVE editor. You must populate these tables with data if you ever wish for the car to start. With no "fuel" aka data the engine can't run. Make all 3 tables use the same data.

    Make sure the MAP sensor data matches your 2 bar sensor. Those being the linear and offset data.

    DoD master enable switch needs to disabled. COT (cat over temp) must be shut off. All related DTC codes for rear o2 senors, evap, cats, DoD/AFM parts must be disabled.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the input! I'll start working these changes today.

    ~Ryan
    Charleston, SC
    Last edited by rcodea1; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:06 PM.

  4. #4
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    My lack or recent turning experience is starting to show.

    SO i made the adjustments as suggested above. Still no fuel or spark. Attached are the new file, log, and list of DTCs i have tried to clear but will not seem to go away.

    P0113 - should have cleared when i found and corrected the IAT sensor pins.
    P0178 - flex fuel is not connected yet...assume this will not prevent the car from starting. correct?
    P057C - not sure what to make of this one. My harness has me connect a pair of purple wires to the brake pedal...12V when brake is applied. I have it wired as such. Maybe this is my real issue?
    P0615 - not sure here....its a standalone, so I think i can uncheck the SES and change to 'no error reported'. correct?
    U0100 - not sure here...same as P0615?

    I have cleared these, ignition off for 5 minutes, rescan and they are all there...same ones, same order, no additional codes.

    I also made note in the log that the MAP is reading 54kPa...on cranking it goes to 53kPa...and I have manually tested that it does respond, but not through the full 2 bar range.

    The throttle also seems to not be going to the extremes...it is responsive....up to 88%. It is not the standard Caprice pedal, rather swapped to a '12 Corvette per the harness instructions. Am i supposed to change the throttle settings/calibration?

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    ~Ryan
    Charleston, SC
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    Last edited by rcodea1; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:24 PM.

  5. #5
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I don't know what that MAP sensors linear and offset settings are suppose to be, so it may be wrong and that's why your key on engine off MAP is not up around 100kpa like it should be if you lived at sea level.

    You could have just got a GM 3 bar sensor from like a ZR1. It's maybe $25-30 and plugs straight into the harness and has plug and play data.

    The TPS reading to 84 or 88% is normal.

    Log your injector pulse width avg, that will let you know if the injectors do anything. Do you have power to the coils? Does it run on brake cleaner or starting fluid?

    As a back up for the speed density, you can also set the a few of the other MAF settings this way. The ERT min can be set to 0 seconds instead of 1 second of run time. The min rpm can be set to 0 rpm as well. Lastly the high/low count thresh set to 1 rpm each.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  6. #6
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    The MAP sensor is a 16009886... the same as the 12569241...brick style 2 Bar, which is supposed to have the same 200 range and 10 offset. Im starting to think that the sensor I have is a bad one, or not correct...as it is now, the offset needs to be about 45 or so....which would really mess with my fidelity of the sensor. I'll tinker with that while waiting to replace it with a the OEM unit.

    I didnt want to go with the 3 bar....only going to see about 10-12psi total and wanted to get as much fidelity as I could.

    Log with the Injector Pulse width avg is attached. Its sending fuel apparently, so maybe my nose is just not smelling it....the fuel is from March or so at this point.

    I have confirmed that the coils have power...full 12V at the Pink/Black wires on both coils. I have not tried brake cleaner or starting fluid...visually been verifying by pulling a spark plug and shorting it to the frame. No spark seen. But i can not figure out a reason for no spark, other than software. Happy to check anything else people can come up with.

    I even went so far as to investigate the brake switch...its a 5v 3 wire setup for x1 connector...i shorted the 5v and the signal, taking another separate log.

    I made the changes for the MAF, anot now getting a new P0102 for MAF fail....thats a new one which i havent gotten before.

    logs, cal and DTC list are attached.

    ~Ryan
    Charleston, SC
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    Last edited by rcodea1; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    The kind of MAP you use really don't matter, I prefer the 3 bar sensor because it's plug and play thus leading to no doubt the sensor settings are going to work.

    Without the vehicle in front of me and talking more time to dig into it, I'm tapped out for the moment.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  8. #8
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    5FDP,

    Should i just start with something different than a modified version of the Caprice files? If so, what works as a starting point?

  9. #9
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    You could.

    Like if you wanted a fresh start you could flash it back to stock. Then just start over with the most basic changes to see if it will run.

    I'm talking like just disabled the VATS, fail the MAF sensor, input the new MAP sensor data. Disable any related DTC codes and that kinda stuff but don't apply the 2 bar OS yet. See if it will run with the stock OS and the MAF failed.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  10. #10
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    latest attempt....doubled the cranking fuel....now showing 7-10% duty cycle, but still nothing out of the injectors.

    I was able to confirm spark on the plugs with this working 5 cal.

    I'll try restarting with the original file and see what happens as you described

    attached are the files.
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  11. #11
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    starting over, i get to this....and still nothing.

    I'll have to relook into the wiring, though i am 100% sure that it is correct....checked pin by pin already once for the whole harness.
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  12. #12
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    You have a bunch of unknowns. Too much fuel? Not enough? No spark, or spark but at the wrong time? Some of these can be answered definitively. Some can't.

    To eliminate the fueling unknowns, disconnect the injectors. Make sure (don't say 'I think it's probably OK') it's not flooded, cylinders aren't full of fuel and the plugs are dry. Spray it with carb/brake cleaner and see if it'll hit. If it does, you then know for sure you have either not enough or too much fuel in the tune (or some other problem that causes the same result). If it still does nothing, you then know for sure you have a spark issue - either none at all, or happening at the wrong time (unlikely), and no-spark is an easy thing to check, you don't need fancy tools but you may need a helper if you can't see the spark jump while turning the key.

    At this point, knowing anything at all 'for sure' would be a step forward, no?

  13. #13
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    Oh, and P0102 with the MAF disabled is normal, and necessary for it to run in speed density. With the MAF removed it won't run until that code sets.

  14. #14
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    blindsquirrl,

    I went down many of these paths the last few days....whats missing....fuel, air, spark....etc. Hence the frustration...i can not find a reason for it to not start, unless there some

    Engine is not flooded. I pulled the #4 spark plug, held a tissue 1" from the plug hole, and attempted to start. No fuel was smelled in the air, and no fuel on the tissue. my wife's nose says the same. This despite increasing fuel pressure to 80psi and pulse widths north of 80ms/14% duty cycle on these 42lb injectors. I'll buy some brake cleaner today and test when i get home.

    Spark is confirmed....visually at night with pulled plug shorted to ground. I do not know how to confirm timing though without marks on my crank.

    Understood on the P0102. I didnt see that code when trying working 6 last night....i'll try again and make sure i can get the MAF to fail.

    I am starting to think i am running into some kind of software safety switch, something which will not allow fuel to be sent...even when the PCM is trying to command 14% duty cycle. The 12V side is getting over 11V when cranking, so im thinking the computer is not commanding ground for the injectors. The question is though....why?

    Looking through the wiring diagrams, there is a brake position signal, 5V analog, which i previously shorted for pins 54 5V and 26 sig and 42 low reference on the X1 PCM connecter. These pins do not exist in the harness, but it appears even adding them isnt helping. I will retry again tonight.

    The 'optional' park/neutral safety switch in my harness is presently not connected, appears to connect PCM X1 pin 1 to TCM X1 pin 3 and so i will conform their connection try that tonight as well.

    There also appears to be a link from the BCM X5 pin 12 to PCM X1 pin 9 and TCM X1 pin 6. These i understand from my harness instructions to be a 12V prodived when brake pedal is applied. That is how i have it wired presently. The wiring diagrams i have do not seem to state if it is a 12V or 5V that both modules are expecting. I'll try that as well tonight.

  15. #15
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    You can check for injector pulse with a plain ol' dumb test light. ECM just provides a ground to complete the circuit, it will make the light blink while cranking if there's injector pulse being commanded.

    If you spray it and it runs (or tries to) you know spark & timing are not the cause. You can skip the brake switch wiring crap for right now, that won't make it not run. You should look into the goofy MAP readings, something not right there. And with no MAF anymore to fall back on, if the MAP is not right, THAT WILL make it not run. Do you have the stock sensor to use just for testing (jumpers if you had to change the connector and back to stock linear/offset in the tune)?

    VATS - have you done a read of the ECM, saved that file with a new name, and compared it to the file you wrote to confirm VATS status didn't somehow not survive the write?

  16. #16
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    I'lltry the test light on the injector plug just to confirm.

    Agreed, the MAP seems weird, but is reading and does respond when I apply vacuum or pressure to it manually. new sensor is coming, will try that soon.

    I do have the original MAP and will have to undo my wiring changes and peramiters in the tune, but its worth trying that. i'll try that after the starter fluid tonight.

    I'll check vats again by pulling after sending a new cal for the factory MAP.

  17. #17
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    set MAP linear to 246
    offset 10.31

    turn vats off. populate the 3 VE tables with data. fail the MAF correctly. max P0068, disable the P101,106 and 121 tests. re-enable the SES and MIL for P0101 and P0103 in the engine DTC and do a write entire.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukearmstrong1990 View Post
    set MAP linear to 246
    offset 10.31
    Those are different from what i have been able to source...wouldnt this be for a 2.5 Bar Delphi, 12592525?

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    what MAP do you have?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukearmstrong1990 View Post
    what MAP do you have?
    as listed in the first post....16009886...which is the same as 12569241... brick sytle 2 Bar. I have been told that the this MAP needs a 200 linear and 10 offset, but this particular one needed 200/56offset to show 99kPa with KOEO. This leads me to believe that the MAP may be bad, though its new, so waiting for a replacement to come. In the mean time, i'll try the things losted above.