Fuel System Monitor Readiness / Flash and tunes relationship

[fred_rok]

Hello,

After driving quite a while and a number of fuelings, the fuel system readiness monitor continues to show not ready for the looming emission test. After some research, it seems a common enough issue with the 2012 Wrangler that they have a PCM flash to address it and may be required. Mine is turbo charged, so a custom tune, and I have questions that I'd love the experts to chime in about please.

Can the dealer flash the PCM with the current tune installed or will I need to drive it there, load the stock tune, have them flash the PCM and then reload the custom tune to drive off with?

And that begs some understanding on my part of what is the "dealer flash" vs tune relationship? Isn't that the same or can they flash the PCM (touching emissions parameters not affected by tunes) and then I can load HP tunes on top of that flash?

And the holy grail; is this an adjustment that I can correct in the HP tune?

Thank you for any input and looking forward to the education!

[luciddeath]

Did you delete your rear o2 sensors, or change anything in the tune already?

[fred_rok]

I've not done anything in the tune to combat this current issue. All O2s are functional.

[luciddeath]

I've not done anything in the tune to combat this current issue. All O2s are functional.

It could be an inconsistency in the tune. Like an unnecessary adjustment for rear o2 sensors. Should be fine deleting that particular code and removing battery for 10 minutes after. Otherwise may need to be set a certain way to keep system from throwing that code.

[fred_rok]

Thanks, It's the fuel system readiness monitor I'm having issues with so inclined to think the system is looking more at gas caps, vapor, etc. and not actual O2s related, etc.

Ultimately, I guess the question is can I get the dealer to perform a PCM update (firmware?) for that issue that's been identified and then reload my current tune without affecting that update?

[spoolboy]

The answer is probably no. But you can:
Save ?current? tune file.
Flash back to stock.
Have the dealer flash your vehicle with the update.
Read/copy the dealer update tune file.
Open the dealer update tune file.
Open your ?current? tune file in compare. Look at what is different.
Choose copy all differences and save this file as a new file name.
Load the new file with copied changes.

No guarantees, but that is the most likely way to get it fixed while retaining the necessary changes for your turbo.

[fred_rok]

Thank you for the suggestion spoolboy. I'm hoping it's a firmware type change that may be unaffected by tuner sw changes. But I also don't even know if I'm understanding the PCM/tuning relationship correctly.

[Homer]

FWIW I struggled for a year to get my 2015 SC challenger to pass all emissions monitors, although it was CAT and O2 that were my problem. The original tune done with DS had several DTCs disabled which I put back to stock and now everything passes.

If you read the new calibration/OS update and copy your tune modifications like, Spoolboy suggests, to that file and write it back to the PCM the new update fixes should not be affected. In fact, some write the latest calibration/OS to the PCM and then make the appropriate changes.

[fred_rok]

Great info Homer, thank you. I too have noticed that if some DTCs are disabled, the monitors won't complete the process. 420/430 for CAT for example. Chasing some codes now (P113E permanent that won't go away I suspect because they were turned off after setting and a new current P2097) along with the perfect tune that are adding to my frustration but in the meantime, I need to consider I have to get this fuel system monitor to set. I happened to find a thread in a forum discussing this exact issue with a PCM update available on my exact model/year.

I may be to the point that I return it to stock, update the PCM at dealer, drive to set, pass emissions and reinstall the turbo. Maybe I'll learn more in the 2 year span where I'll have it figured out for the next.

[Homer]

If the P113E is O2 slow to respond, it my be the sensor or small, hard to find exhaust leak. When I installed my headers, after a while I kept getting a bank 1 sensor 1 slow to respond. Tried futzing with transport delay and even swapped bank 1 and 2 sensors but did not help. Checked for leaks using a smoke machine and soapy water when the system was cold and found nothing. Reluctantly replaced the sensors with OEM ones and it went away...BTW no changes to the tune. It's been over a 1 1/2 years since the sensor change and no codes.

[fred_rok]

Thanks much for that. I've checked for exhaust leaks multiple times (no smoke machine) and with the turbo, certainly more opportunity for that. I've replaced B2S1 recently in an effort to target the P2097 and I think I may just replace the rest anyway eventually; cheap enough and 60k miles on them. I had always suspected that the 113 may have been due to the entire replacement of the exhaust manifold and subsequent sensor location change since it happened at the same time. So many variables. I appreciate the input.

[fred_rok]

To follow up, I had the dealer flash my PCM to the latest revision (I was 4 behind). I followed spoolboy's directions and reloaded the modified "new" tune, drove home and bam; fuel system monitor ready for the first time! Unfortunately, on the next drive cycle, p113e/d posted and so I'm on to my new adventure to play with airflow delays and I made a new post about that task. If I disable them in the DTCs, I get every other monitor ready EXCEPT the fuel system now so no doubt that's a conflict. Surprising, with the p113e/d disabled and the p2097 enabled, I don't get the p2097. Great game of chess.

Thanks for the help and please feel free to chime in on my other post.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...nt-P113E-P113D

[Homer]

Like I said, I spent a long time trying to get all my monitors to pass until I finally set all the DTC to stock (I am running a magnuson SC and long tube headers with high flow cats). I don't know why SC tunes have so many disabled...no way in hell it would have passed with the base tune. If you keep getting the P113E slow to respond, I don't think you will fix it by futzing with the transport delay, I am guessing it might be sensor(s) related...at least that was the case on my rig.

FWIW, I just went to the IL emissions test site last Friday for my 2015 RT's first test and the car passed (no surprise as I saw all the monitors were complete).

[fred_rok]

Thanks Homer, yea I swapped out the O2s with new (NTK, which are the OEMs) and it didn't change anything for me, unfortunately so here I am.

I have a call into our state emissions tech center to confirm as it would seem we're allowed 1 unset monitor as long as O2, O2 heater and cats are set from the online research I've done. If I can confirm that, then I should be good to go........ until they tighten that aspect up. Either way, I may play with the delays cuz I'm a glutton and may learn more from it.

[Homer]

I don't see how the O2 monitors (at least the catalyst and O2 sensor) complete with a P113 or slow to respond O2?
o2 monitor.JPG

It was always the O2 sensor and catalyst that would not complete for me and hence the fuel system monitor did not complete. Below is a screenshot of the slow to respond O2 I was fighting.
dtc latest.JPG

I know this is sounding like an old record (wish I had other suggestions for a solution) but swapping the O2 sensors with new ones and reverting the engine diagnostics back to stock was what did it for me...transport delay had no effect but worth a shot I guess.
pass monitors.PNG
BTW my O2 sensor parameters in the tune are also stock
o2 settings.JPG

except for the transport delays. I forgot the percentage but these are the deltas(current tune compared to stock).
transport delta.JPG

I was hoping the pros might have jumped in to give a hint as to what they do to get the monitors to complete but I guess each car and mod is different. BTW one thing I did forget to mention is I installed a set of these O2 sims (even though I am running high flow cats) on the downstreams the same time I replaced the O2s. I don't think they are actually doing anything because I never had a catalyst low efficiency DTC pop up when I was running the old O2s and high flow cats but I never took them off to check.

http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html

[Homer]

BTW if you don't have a FSM you can use this link to get access to the online chilton's site which is hosted by a library in NM.
https://www.challengertalk.com/threa...7/post-8494405

In case you can't view the link:
https://infotrac.galegroup.com/itweb/va0083_002?db=CHLL


PW: blackwater

[Homer]

FWIW I was comparing the wrangler P113E with the challenger P0159 and one thing that stood out on the challenger code is that it sets when the PCM does not detect a rich to lean switch within a specific time during a decel fuel shutoff event. Wonder if this means tweaks to DFCO settings (mine are stock) can cause this dtc to trip? Although, not sure if this is applicable to wranglers?

[fred_rok]

I don't see how the O2 monitors (at least the catalyst and O2 sensor) complete with a P113 or slow to respond O2?
o2 monitor.JPG

I?d agree after reading this but all of my applicable monitors are set except the Fuel System(O2, O2htr, Evap, Cat)

It was always the O2 sensor and catalyst that would not complete for me and hence the fuel system monitor did not complete. Below is a screenshot of the slow to respond O2 I was fighting.
dtc latest.JPG

I know this is sounding like an old record (wish I had other suggestions for a solution) but swapping the O2 sensors with new ones and reverting the engine diagnostics back to stock was what did it for me...transport delay had no effect but worth a shot I guess.
pass monitors.PNG
BTW my O2 sensor parameters in the tune are also stock
o2 settings.JPG

except for the transport delays. I forgot the percentage but these are the deltas(current tune compared to stock).
transport delta.JPG

The 113s have been erratic for me (off sometimes, randomly post others) but I?ve been loading tunes since I installed the damn thing last year and until recently with emissions looming, have been more concerned with just getting the driveability acceptable. I?ve had good monitors but never good fuel system with or without the 113s enabled throughout the process. Now that the fuel system monitor should be fixed due to the dealer PCM flash (like I saw on that first drive cycle home) the damn 113s come right up and since fuel won?t set now, I gotta assume them the culprit as that?s been the only change. Maybe the new flash makes them more sensitive? Not home now but before I left town, I put the original O2s back in. I can see the O2s switching like crazy in VCM and my STFTs and LTFTs don?t show big trends so I?m reaching. Also odd, is the p2097 I started to get out of the blue that new O2s also didn?t change, does not post now with the p113s disabled. Your delays were adjusted and you mentioned they didn?t help but it?s the tune you are running currently without codes so......?


I was hoping the pros might have jumped in to give a hint as to what they do to get the monitors to complete but I guess each car and mod is different. BTW one thing I did forget to mention is I installed a set of these O2 sims (even though I am running high flow cats) on the downstreams the same time I replaced the O2s. I don't think they are actually doing anything because I never had a catalyst low efficiency DTC pop up when I was running the old O2s and high flow cats but I never took them off to check.

http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html

Thank you, I?m familiar with them and used to get 420/430s until I installed a Gesi converter. The one that came with the kit was for show only and it smelled like it. Most of my post cat stuff is gone now (we?ll see where that p2097 goes) but I?m hoping it will continue to clean things up.

All this to say, I?ve not had much help or luck in my troubleshooting and tuning endeavors so I really appreciate you sharing your experience and advice/suggestions. It still idles rough and part throttle accelerates like shit when cold and it will only get worse as the temps drop, along with part throttle surging but that?s been the norm on almost each tune. I?ve had tunes that idled better but worse in drivability and paying for tuning has yet to yield an acceptable result so here I am tackling it on my own now. I think that my high altitude is somehow throwing off tuners that normally wouldn?t have much issue with it but I dunno. I just know that I?m at the point where I need to stop messing with it and get it passed and then go back to the driving aspects.

[fred_rok]

BTW if you don't have a FSM you can use this link to get access to the online chilton's site which is hosted by a library in NM.
https://www.challengertalk.com/threa...7/post-8494405

In case you can't view the link:
https://infotrac.galegroup.com/itweb/va0083_002?db=CHLL


PW: blackwater

Thank you!

[fred_rok]

FWIW I was comparing the wrangler P113E with the challenger P0159 and one thing that stood out on the challenger code is that it sets when the PCM does not detect a rich to lean switch within a specific time during a decel fuel shutoff event. Wonder if this means tweaks to DFCO settings (mine are stock) can cause this dtc to trip? Although, not sure if this is applicable to wranglers?

Thank you for pointing this out. As far as I recall, I don’t remember seeing them adjusted when I compare files but def worth a look. I’ll take any hints I can get. I occasionally will get an exhaust pop but minor and not very often enough that I’ve wanted to mess with that, I assume they’re still stock but I’ll double check.