Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 73

Thread: shift points

  1. #41
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by bb-tt View Post
    Ok

    So i am tripped up now, so after reviewing logs in sport mode i have seen TCC map 3, 8, & 13 used in sport mode and 27, 40, & 47 used in Manual mode. so if i look at the TCC apply/release speed maps

    tcc map 3 uses 1-8
    8, 13 use 11-18

    and 27, 40, 47 use 31-38

    But when i look at TCC A/R speed map 31 it is set to 10,000 rpm???? WTF i look at log and see [ttc pattern 27], [tcc mode 31] what am i missing?






    That is indeed really strange. I checked my maps, and it looks like I have the same maps as you:
    tcc map 3 uses 1-8
    8, 13 use 11-18
    and 27, 40, 47 use 31-38

    However, my TCC table looks a lot more like you'd expect for maps 31-40... (Every other table looks identical to yours)
    TCC Tables.PNG

    I never changed mine, so these are the same as stock for me. Does the 10,000rpm also show up in your stock maps? I wonder if you may have accidentally changed them or something. If not, that is certainly weird.

  2. #42
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemithis01 View Post
    When you launch from a stop you are technically in 0 gear. Not 1st. So make sure your tq request maps allow you build more tq off the line. Then raise your stall table and you should be able to launch in a higher rpm
    By "tq request maps", do you mean this table?
    tq request map.PNG

    If so, I already set N to 800. If I wanted a stall speed of 950, would I also have to set this to 950?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodepic View Post
    That is indeed really strange. I checked my maps, and it looks like I have the same maps as you:
    tcc map 3 uses 1-8
    8, 13 use 11-18
    and 27, 40, 47 use 31-38

    However, my TCC table looks a lot more like you'd expect for maps 31-40... (Every other table looks identical to yours)
    TCC Tables.PNG

    I never changed mine, 2011 a4 8hp55 so these are the same as stock for me. Does the 10,000rpm also show up in your stock maps? I wonder if you may have accidentally changed them or something. If not, that is certainly weird.
    Yes just compared with stock there is no change there, but based on Hemi's comment think i was looking in wrong area anyway this just may be an issue for another time.

    So if i want to increase stall speed when brake boosting i should be looking at TCM 46856 Gear max torque limit and increasing N not 1 and tcm 46957 gear max torque limit stall and increase that or just go max torque limit slip and increase that?? i was thinking i needed to go to tcm 46968 and increase 31 unlock>slip and Slip>lock but it would appear i was chasing rabbits.

  4. #44
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by bb-tt View Post
    So if i want to increase stall speed when brake boosting i should be looking at TCM 46856 Gear max torque limit and increasing N not 1 and tcm 46957 gear max torque limit stall and increase that or just go max torque limit slip and increase that?? i was thinking i needed to go to tcm 46968 and increase 31 unlock>slip and Slip>lock but it would appear i was chasing rabbits.
    I'm not sure that slip is what we want to happen. Here's a quote from Steven about the TCC modes:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven@HPTuners View Post
    The converter clutch operates in one of 4 distinct modes. Open, Slip, Lock, and Overlock.

    Open: No engagement of the clutch at all.
    Slip: The clutch is engaged with a specific controlled slip RPM. I.e. 25RPM difference between turbine speed and input shaft speed.
    Lock: The clutch is engaged in an attempt to fully lock turbine speed and input shaft speed.
    Overlock: The clutch is completely engaged, i.e. converter clutch pressure is maximized.
    Wouldn't we not want to be slipping the clutch on the launch? Ideally we'd have the TCC clutch open, and we're just relying on the torque converter. If we were spinning the clutch, we'd probably damage it rather quickly. I suppose it depends on what OSS the TCC starts to slip. I'll look at some maps.

    Edit: Looks like in 1st gear on shift pattern 8 (used for amax) at 60+% throttle, the TCC is unlocked all the way until 850 OSS, aka 4000rpm in 1st... Although I'm not sure the values in [TCM] 46967 are even OSS...If they are, it's rather irrelevant for launching as the OSS is ~0 until we start moving. Are we able to log TCC state in VCM scanner?
    Last edited by Woodepic; 06-30-2020 at 04:28 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodepic View Post
    I'm not sure that slip is what we want to happen. Here's a quote from Steven about the TCC modes:


    Wouldn't we not want to be slipping the clutch on the launch? Ideally we'd have the TCC clutch open, and we're just relying on the torque converter. If we were spinning the clutch, we'd probably damage it rather quickly. I suppose it depends on what OSS the TCC starts to slip. I'll look at some maps.
    Ideally we would have tcm(s) loaded that the hellcat or demon has so we could program a transmission brake. But we are stuck brake boosting, but yes i think i was looking at it wrong.

  6. #46
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    13
    we launch with an open clutch. slip is just an intermediate phase between open and locked for smoothness. my duramax has a triple disk converter and the first time I drove it I thought something broke. it hits hard when it locks.

    trans brake helps with not pushing through the brakes. it does that by engaging 2 gears at the same time and they fight against each other. the bad thing is you're not preloading the drivetrain. so for axle/diff reliability a brake launch is better. if you're pushing through the brakes add an electric vacuum pump from a b5/c5/mkiv

  7. #47
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Wilmington, MA, USA
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by ed1380 View Post
    Hey... am I the only one who finds the aggression-based shift point scheduling in these transmissions annoying? In general I think the ZF8 is a great transmission, but sometimes I get the feeling the transmission is trying to guess and adjust to what I want, and I'm trying to guess and adjust to what it's going to do, and we just keep going around in circles.

    I'm curious if anyone's ever tried going into the "shift pattern aggression mapping" table and setting the values all the same for each mode. For example in the table above, plug the same number into lower aggression and upper aggression for driver types 0-5, and another number for types 6-10. That way in each mode (by "mode" I mean regular, sport, etc.) it would always use the same set of tables, only varying by acceleration value. It seems to me that would make the transmission's operation more predictable, and reduce the number of tables you need to adjust when tuning.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ed1380 View Post
    we launch with an open clutch. slip is just an intermediate phase between open and locked for smoothness. my duramax has a triple disk converter and the first time I drove it I thought something broke. it hits hard when it locks.

    trans brake helps with not pushing through the brakes. it does that by engaging 2 gears at the same time and they fight against each other. the bad thing is you're not preloading the drivetrain. so for axle/diff reliability a brake launch is better. if you're pushing through the brakes add an electric vacuum pump from a b5/c5/mkiv
    Hmm i guess i wasn't thinking about the abuse on the drive line, was just thinking you could get a quicker launch by letting go of a shift lever rather then releasing the brake pedal.

  9. #49
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Wilmington, MA, USA
    Posts
    155
    Yeah... and it might be extra-abusive on an AWD drivetrain like in our Audis, because those drivetrains can have a lot more "slop" than 2WD cars due to the larger number of diffs, CV joints, etc.

  10. #50
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by ELaw View Post
    Hey... am I the only one who finds the aggression-based shift point scheduling in these transmissions annoying? In general I think the ZF8 is a great transmission, but sometimes I get the feeling the transmission is trying to guess and adjust to what I want, and I'm trying to guess and adjust to what it's going to do, and we just keep going around in circles.

    I'm curious if anyone's ever tried going into the "shift pattern aggression mapping" table and setting the values all the same for each mode. For example in the table above, plug the same number into lower aggression and upper aggression for driver types 0-5, and another number for types 6-10. That way in each mode (by "mode" I mean regular, sport, etc.) it would always use the same set of tables, only varying by acceleration value. It seems to me that would make the transmission's operation more predictable, and reduce the number of tables you need to adjust when tuning.
    make all the maps in aggression 1, 2 the same for drive and 3, 4 for sport

  11. #51
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Can someone post a screenshot / basic tune file of their launch settings? I have raised stall speed and the torque for the neutral gear, yet I am unable to get my launch rpm much past 3000. Any help would be appreciated!

  12. #52
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodepic View Post
    Can someone post a screenshot / basic tune file of their launch settings? I have raised stall speed and the torque for the neutral gear, yet I am unable to get my launch rpm much past 3000. Any help would be appreciated!
    I just tried measuring my trans's input torque. Here's what I found. torque.PNG

    I find this odd since I have my stall tq limit set to 750nm, and I have the tq limit for gear N and 1 set to 800nm. I also had the slip torque limit set to 550nm. It's odd that I can only really get ~360nm when trying to launch.

    Any ideas?

  13. #53
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodepic View Post
    I just tried measuring my trans's input torque. Here's what I found. torque.PNG

    I find this odd since I have my stall tq limit set to 750nm, and I have the tq limit for gear N and 1 set to 800nm. I also had the slip torque limit set to 550nm. It's odd that I can only really get ~360nm when trying to launch.

    Any ideas?
    Did you ever figure it out? im new to tuning the ZF8 in MY12 A6/C7 and wanted a solution if i were to encounter the same issue as you.

  14. #54
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeAZ View Post
    Did you ever figure it out? im new to tuning the ZF8 in MY12 A6/C7 and wanted a solution if i were to encounter the same issue as you.
    I did not... However I'm starting to think that may just be the most torque my engine is capable of putting out. I was looking at the dyno sheets, and that amount of torque is more or less fitting for the rpm. However I'm not sure. Let me know if you figure anything out!

  15. #55
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    11
    Hey guys,

    First time attempting to tune my ZF8HP transmission. I have a 2012 A6 with a little over 100K miles. I have had a GIAC stage 2 tune for about 7 years. A bit late but want to get the missing HP out of it due to low shifting red line. Read thru this thread which was really helpful in answering some of my questions. Still do not completely understand all the settings we can adjust but did adjust my sport mode shift maps (aggression maps 3&4 for variant 0&1). Set my max RPM to 7308 in these maps. Also changed Max Eng Spd Var0 &1.
    Am I missing anything?

    I still need to buy credits in order write this tune to the TCM, has anyone had any issues accomplishing this? Also I am assuming that with the credits we can update the TCM as many times as we wish.
    Last edited by jfrAudi; 10-10-2020 at 03:44 PM.

  16. #56
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    I don't think any of us know what all the tables do lol.

    It looks like you did enough to get the extra hp out of the car. You can still increase the amount of allowed launches, as well as parameters for each launch.

    Also if you go into thr tq management table, you're able to play with stall speed, and max allowed torque for each gear. That will allow you to get off the line faster

  17. #57
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    11
    A question if you do not mind. On the Shift Scheduling tab there are shift pattern tables labeled for instance 27 upshift, variant 0 & 1. What these for?

  18. #58
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrAudi View Post
    A question if you do not mind. On the Shift Scheduling tab there are shift pattern tables labeled for instance 27 upshift, variant 0 & 1. What these for?
    Do you mind sending a screenshot?

  19. #59
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodepic View Post
    Do you mind sending a screenshot?
    Here is a screenshot. What I am asking about are the shift patterns under the OSS Limits
    Screenshot (2)_LI.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #60
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrAudi View Post
    Here is a screenshot. What I am asking about are the shift patterns under the OSS Limits
    Screenshot (2)_LI.jpg
    Okay yes. IIRC, maps 27 and 40 are for manual mode with auto up shift. Then 46 and 47 are the maps for manual mode when you disable auto up shift. I'm not entirely sure what the circled tables do, but I beleive it has to do with when it allows for up shifts / down shifts? I'm not sure.

    What you can do to increase the rpm of the manual mode is go to the column to the left of the circled column, and edit the tables for 27 and 40 from there. That's what I did and it works fine.

    But yeah I'm not too sure what the circled maps are, but I do know you don't need to edit them to increase max rpm in those modes. (Manual mode)