I noticed today that the desired load and desired tip do not line up directly. Ill be at max desired load and flatlined while desired tip will climb and fall on its own. I've included a short data log that illustrates this. All of the tables that I have looked at correlate with desired load. Which tables effect desired tip without changing desired load?
Tip Control.hpl
No one else know either, ok swell lol. Maybe one day. Here's another anomaly. I have lowered the wastegate duty cycle and increased the canister pressure both by about 5% I would guess at this point to essentially lower the max potential boost and allow the throttle to stay open. Works well and boost is maxing around 19.5-20lbs. I have increased some limiter and flatlined driver demands at 350ftlbs. What caught my eye is that, now at full throttle I am at 2.22 air load desired but only 70inHg tip desired. Before on a stock tune it was much different. I would be at only 2.18-2.08 air load desired and 75inHg tip. something has lowered the amount of boost desired while also reporting a higher air load. I am confused here. Any thoughts?
If the computer can make the requested torque number with less boost, it will.
There are a few tables that will affect desired TIP, though the exact names escape me at the moment, but most are pressure differential adjustment tables... But I wouldn't worry too much about desired TIP, unless TIP actual is way way over MAP.
i'm not sure what you're asking, or what you're trying to achieve. seems like your overthinking things. you shouldn't have to mess with the wastegate. Maybe share the tune also.Originally Posted by reubone
Hello sir, thanks for adding to the conversation. OK so try not to worry about tip. Im not sure I can do that just yet but I may eventually get there. I am trying to gain understanding of the relationship between the desired airflow, tip, air load to boost and timing along with torque. knowing how to raise and lower each individually could allow increased flexibility as well as control.
On the surface, tip and airload desired should be parallel in there shaped request or similar I would think. How ever I'm finding that one can change without understanding at least on my part. I do not understand how an increase in airload request would result in lower boost levels. My attemt here is to understand the influences so as to keep tip, airload and tq requests just out of reach of what is actually achievable. Wastegate control initially achieved this goal. But the airload reporting became skewed somehow. 2.08-2.12 used to represent 21-22lbs of boost. Now is reaches 2.22 airload at only 19lbs. All I want to do is understand why this has happened.
While you do get some control over those, for the most part the computer will just do it's own thing to insure engine safety and how to maintain requested torque with the lowest possible cylinder pressure.
Normally that is prioritizing timing over boost in most cases, and I've found that if you try to force more boost than the torque request, it will just close the throttle or pull timing (or both), either leads to sluggish feeling performance.
I also see that your octane adjust is pretty low, I'd say if you can get some better fuel and get the OAR in better shape, things will feel better.
Edit: also, remember that air load numbers are imaginary, they literally could be anything according to the torque tables.
Also, I had not thought to account for the drop in outside temperature to the drop in boost pressure. I wasn't trying to force a certain boost pressure. I was actually trying to cap it or its maximum potential with the waste gate in order to maximize throttle opening and timing in order to reach the requested torque. After reloading the stock tune file, The boost pressure dropped another lb to 18, throttle closed down for most of the run and the timing was sawtooth in pattern with slight knock. With my settings, we have the throttle open for most of the run and timing riding the cylinder pressure limit. Power feels about the same but the delivery seems smother and more deliberate with mine if that makes sense. Question, How long does it take to get used to these low timing numbers these operate at? I haven't touched timing at all yet but 0* is odd to look at
I'll have to take a look when I get home.
Octane adjust will learn when you're in range of the parameters set in the spark->retard tab, usually when I need to get it to learn, I just do some low rpm/high load pulls (2500 rpm, try to hold it in low boost, 6psi or so, slow back down, repeat).
Repeat pulls in 5th gear on the highway usually does it for me.
I haven't posted an update to it in a long time, but here's my tuning thread for reference, you could compare again my file:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ng-dummy-check
Edit:
Looking at your tune file, change Airflow->Turbocharger->Outlet pressure back to your max allowed boost, like 26PSI. I leave that as an overboost protection of sorts, but I wouldn't max it out.
Your main limiter right now is LSPI reduction (Torque management->General), you're currently riding those, so you'll never see more than 2.2 air load.
My suggestion would be to follow the curve Ford has set, but bump up the highest to 2.6.
You will likely max out at 2.4 air load after that, because that's the max load in the torque tables (TTL and LTT), so if you want more, you'll have to expand those out.
May also need to raise Airflow->Speed Density->Maximum Load, those also top out at a 2.2 air load.
Last edited by Seishuku; 10-04-2022 at 05:10 PM.
I have a 2.0 ecoboost the stock timing stays pretty low, even when running 93 you might get it up a few degrees, but not much. I'm running e85 now, and can get it to go as high as 26 under full throttle! but i try to keep it around 22-23sh. ethanol is what wakes these engines up.
4.hpl
Check this one out. Your right in that I am riding the LSPI Tables for max desired air load. You can see on the data log that I never quite get there either. Almost but always a tad below. Same goes for the TIP desired but in this case, as the TIP desired so does my actual TIP but always staying a touch below. To me this is just about perfect as the throttle stays open and the timing is not being reduced to control tq. Now, If I can figure out what controls desired TIP Ill be in full control of the boost curve. I'm thinking its going to be the driver demand table. I don't think I'll need to go above 2.25 Airload desired for now as it reaches 24PSI at 5800rpm with that request. Which I also think is too high but should hold a flatter tq curve on a rising boost curve. 22psi at 3500 to 23.5 or so at 5700 is what I am after.... I think. Also sadly we have zero ethanol around me. We do have race gas though.
Looks good, looks like you just need to raise driver demand.
Probably could stand to lean out WOT Lamba fuel as well, the stock 0.7 is *very* rich and can be leaned out to at least .8
Last edited by Seishuku; 10-05-2022 at 05:23 PM.
Limiters.hpl
Ok so I'm pretty Happy with what I've got so far. The only thing I don't like is how unsteady the boost is. From what I can tell, the exhaust temp, wastegate limit, and exhaust component protection are all kicking in at different times. So perhaps they are effecting it. Another issue is the throttle lag between pedal 100% and what the etc actually does. I wouldn't mind if it stalled at like 50% and went up from there but it stops at like 18% and slowly creeps up from there.
All the component protection is tripping injector limit as well, so you'll need to increase the injection angle to compensate... Not that it has a lack of fuel running 0.7 lambda...
Also increase turbo airflow limits more, pretty sure that's causing the turbo FMEM.
Not sure on the slow throttle ramp-in, maybe transmission protection? I don't have a lot of experience with automatics.
Thank you for your help.
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