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Thread: 2014 R-Spec tuning

  1. #21
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Ok, so knowing the intended usage of the car is helpful. Just bear in mind that the soft rubber lower engine mount bushings cause extreme to/fro engine movement which accelerates the failure of the low pressure fuel line, due to binding/kinking.

    I would put the values from 1.5-14.0% columns in the TB Airflow map back to stock values (leave 0.0 as .7) and see if that helps. Currently, for example, the 14.0 column is set to assume ~10% more compressor flow, which is not accurate as the turbo is stock. Leave the Desired Throttle map as how I modified it and test further.

    As far as the upsized TB upgrade, your call. They would not be able to tell unless they removed the cold pipe and TB, then measured the TB with a caliper.
    Last edited by zugig; 2 Days Ago at 01:26 PM.

  2. #22
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    Yea I was hoping that wouldn't be the case but appears it could be so I will re-access the motor mount situation.

    I went ahead and loaded up the stock values and forgot to change the 0 to .7 so this log was just stock on that map all together. 14VTR Tune 6.hpl The car felt just as good, saw 21lbs as I was able to sneak some incline into 3rd gear pulls. The throttle decel was much better, I did like the accel pedal feel your tune had, felt a little more....connected....the perfect mix would be that accel with the stock decel. However, I was guessing the accel was better because the loaded airflow that was added but there were no changes to the 14-30% so that didn't make sense. Is this controlled by the Desired Throttle Angle? Being the same map it kind of blows my theory out the water but I have to ask.

    You would be surprised what BMW and spec racers will do when something they don't know is mixing it up with them.

    I think the spacer would be fine since I have seen some meth kits before and I believe they ran them that way but I will ask around, if they are good to go I may hit you up on that offer.
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  3. #23
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    The TB maps aren't meant to tune for power, only for throttle response and linearity. The Airflow map is a misnomer because again, it is based on expected airflow out of the compressor. Now, if you improve the airflow in the charge path anywhere between the compressor outlet and TB, you can increase it globally by 1-2% but generally it's not needed. When I first started tuning, I also fell into the trap of increasing that map too much because I had a 60mm throttle body and it had the same locomotive effect. I could literally drive on the highway at 70 MPH with my foot completely off the pedal!

    Having a 5-10% increase in that low-mid range as you had it probably kept the throttle blade more open as a result, as the two TB maps are related. What I normally do is adjust the Desired Throttle (%angle) map just enough to change pedal responsiveness and linearity across the RPM range. Power is made elsewhere.

    So these are the areas I focus on (in order) when creating a tune:
    1. Fueling and temperature behavior (safety, anti-LSPI)
    2. Throttle response/behavior (driveability)
    3. Boost response/behavior (power)
    4. Torque/load (power)
    5. Ignition Timing (power)
    6. Ancillary (eco, pops/burbles, experimental, etc.)

    After that, 3, 4 and 5 are usually the ones modified iteratively (mostly 4 followed by 3 and then 5). I'll look at your latest tune and create another revision with some additional tweaks that start to add a bit more power.
    Last edited by zugig; 2 Days Ago at 06:23 PM.

  4. #24
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    See how this one works. Capture a log from first startup. If you get any throttle cuts, on-throttle flutter, KR or any other blatantly negative behavior, immediately stop and put your last known good tune back on.

    14VTR-1.07-Zmods.hpt
    Last edited by zugig; 2 Days Ago at 08:25 PM.

  5. #25
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    Ha! It's one heck of an odd feeling.

    Interesting.....I'm kind of seeing the correlation. Does make sense though.

    Now on to the tune, loaded it on, everything felt good, hit 22PSI and let me say when you jump that gap the power comes on like a train and starts pulling hard. I like the fact that there is almost like a two tier effect then once you enter that load % it just goes but you can keep it out of that and it's tame. Pedal feels good, I don't have to many stop and go actions so the TIP-in seemed a bit boggy but it could have been because of the cold and being right out of my driveway and not 100% warm.

    I like the max power where it's at honestly, the track ability of this car is pretty good stock, in places like Glen and Limerock there are some pretty fast straights where you dip off and back on the power hard after a quick kink so you load the front then unload it. I would rather not have to feather the throttle coming out of the kink so I don't break the tires loose, being able to get back into it quick can give me the run into the straight.

    Saying all of that, I realized I can just keep this tune and if I am running into that issue I just flash this one back....I just need to invest in a mini-laptop so I can mount it instead of using my work laptop and running it through vMware each time!

    I will log again on my ride tonight, this is another meh log as far as RPMs go.
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    Last edited by Illmat1c; 2 Days Ago at 08:43 AM.

  6. #26
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Ok, my latest revision is primarily just to test max. power (and behavior) at WOT, as I have not added much power under 100, just general smoothing of some cells and have not touched timing at all.

    There are some missing maps from what I am used to using and a lot of maps I have not seen before. So I am still getting acclimated as to what the previously unseen maps do.

    I can reduce max. power a bit if you are breaking traction at WOT under weight transfer conditions. First I focus on straight line acceleration improvements and you can advise on behavior according to track usage as you have already done. We are just getting started here. I am sure you will want to create custom tunes for different tracks once you are comfortable with how things work.

    Just so I know, what is your exact wheel and tire setup for both the street and track?

    Knowing your class restrictions would also be helpful, if you have a reference link.

    For others following along, my revisions here are only good for 2013-2016 manual transmission VTs. ATs and DCTs will need slightly different configs and for those I always review the stock tune before revising. Use at your own risk.
    Last edited by zugig; 1 Day Ago at 12:55 PM.

  7. #27
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    Let's keep it rolling if you want I have no problems what so ever doing so, the ability to load whatever map works is such a savior. The only thing I thought I heard was a little BOV leak but more pulls will tell the tale.

    For daily use I run OEM wheels with some 225 all seasons. I am in the process of switching up my setup for next year and will probably end up on Cup 3 tires since I can run them anywhere and I liked the feel of them in the colder weather. For wheels I am still on the fence, I want to get greedy and run Evo X wheels 18x8.5 +35 since my buddy has an extra set I could snag up but just doing the maths they would be too big. I do want to settle on a 18x8 +40ish, just haven't found an exact setup I want to run.

    The series I want to run in follows Motorsports NE classing, so I would end up in ST-4 or 5 (Class C or D for Street events) depending on the field. EMRA Class list EMRA Rules

  8. #28
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    I can help with wheel and tire size selection (if you can go wider/shorter/taller) and if scrub radius is a big concern. Tire compound is up to you. The tire weight vs. wheel weight (i.e., distribution) can have a big effect on wheelspin, which I am sure you are aware of. More later after work.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zugig View Post
    I can help with wheel and tire size selection (if you can go wider/shorter/taller) and if scrub radius is a big concern. Tire compound is up to you. The tire weight vs. wheel weight (i.e., distribution) can have a big effect on wheelspin, which I am sure you are aware of. More later after work.
    Greatly appreciate it! Yea FWD struggles, but it's all part of the fun! We shall cross that bridge over the coming winter.

    I did get a solid 3rd gear w/load and a semi-decent 4th pull. 22.8PSI, pedal feels good, choppy boost when max comes in but it behaved exactly as the tables look. Noticeable change to the AFRs 4500rpms+ she got fat down to 10.6 by 6800k. Otherwise no major hiccups elsewhere.
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  10. #30
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Reviewed the 3rd gear pull portion of your latest log. You don't have EGT defined in your PID list, but I can tell that it's adding fuel either due to component protection or another lambda correction function, as above 4700 RPM lambda steadily dropped to 0.72 (10.6 gasoline AFR), as you noted.

    Load was a bit higher than expected (245-250, tapering to ~229 by 6800 RPM) since we're only targeting 228. At least there were no throttle cuts where they usually happen (midrange at highest boost/load), which means no tq/load limiters were hit, a very good thing. Throttle did start to taper off at after 6800, but it looks like that is where you started to lift off of the throttle.

    If you think that boost was choppy, you should see some dyno graphs from the "pro" tuners (wave city). That boost curve looks fine to me, just needs a little tweaking to soften onset a touch, but there are some missing boost maps that would make it much simpler, so I'll have to work around that.

    You really should import my PID list XML before you capture a log, though. EGTs are mandatory for diagnosis and making adjustments, as well as KR for all cylinders and WGDC.

    Overall, I'm quite satisfied with this very first attempt at power production using HPT.
    Last edited by zugig; 1 Day Ago at 04:39 AM.

  11. #31
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Small changes to fix LTFTs, slightly reduce boost spike/onset and attempt to reduce overrich lambda.

    14VTR-1.08-Zmods.hpt

  12. #32
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    I could not be more satisfied with how this is going so far, I have to take her under the knife to get a bundle of parts on this weekend so the test and tune will only continue with how much this has increased my SPM (smiles per minute) driving the car.

    I will also go back through the PID log list, for whatever reason HPT doesn't want to let me directly import your PID list so I manually enter them. Then load on the tune and log it for the ride home.

  13. #33
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Very good deal. Been awhile since I did those XML files, so all I can say is unload all tunes, see if you can then load my XML, capture a screenshot to view, then reconfigure your PID logging list to match mine and save it.

    Have you loaded 1.08?

  14. #34
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    I stripped it down and loaded into one of my XML files so I could just use the PIDs and I forgot to load it before I logged this one just has the default PIDs VCM scanner gives again. However, when I got home I loaded that file and some your PIDs don't exist in my ECU. They just go blank and show as broken before I log so for whatever reason my ECU definitions at HP Tuners is garbage.

    Car still feels super good, I do think my clutch is starting to slip though sadly. Did some low RPM 5th qear pulls and she reved about 500RPM then caught when the boost came on. A little piece of my heart broke.
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    Last edited by Illmat1c; 17 Hours Ago at 04:49 PM.

  15. #35
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's no bueno. I created those XML files using 2013 VT tunes posted earlier elsewhere. Logging PIDs should be common across all VTs though, one would think.

    Don't do 5th or 6th gear pulls from low RPMs, that puts way too much stress on the drivetrain, as you found out. 4th is closest to 1:1. Start your 2nd/3rd/4th pulls from ~2500 RPM and you should be fine.

    There are lightened flywheels and clutches available. I had a lightened flywheel (AASCO) and stage 2ish clutch/pressure plate (ClutchMasters) made back in 2014.

    Will look at your log soon.

  16. #36
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    EGTs look great, barely above 1700 degrees F (1720 max.), so component protection (CP) lambda is not the issue.

    The DI Injector map for homogeneous mode (HM) minimum lambda I had changed to 0.75 and that's where they straddled when it did go rich. Shortly before the top of 2nd, lambda fluctuated and after the upshift to 3rd, lambda went to 0.75 for a short bit before returning to our target of 0.81. No lambda fluctuation near the top of 3rd, but after the upshift to 4th, lambda went to 0.67 (way overrich) before returning to target DD lambda.

    There's a map in the Exhaust > Temperature tab called Lambda Correction Bank 1 and it's a multiplier appearing to be based on target DD lambda crossed with exhaust flow and the corresponding coefficient is applied. I think this is the culprit for the overrich upshift condition.

    Since I know CP wasn't hit due to EGTs being nowhere near ~1825 (there's an early warning buffer as I mentioned before), I'll change CP lambda back to a lower value (0.75 is fine) and will raise the HM minimum lambda map to match our highest lambda DD target (0.81) to see if it follows HM min. lambda near the top of the RPM range or if it follows target DD lambda.

    LTFTs were near 0 and drifted to -1.6 at the end of the log which is fine for now. Rather be on the slightly rich (negative) side of 0 than lean (positive).
    Last edited by zugig; 5 Hours Ago at 05:03 AM.

  17. #37
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Let's see how this works. We're basically telling the ECM to stop adjusting lambda unnecessarily and only enrichen if EGTs get near the danger zone. Can probably lower the EGT CP temp threshold, but let's test this one first.

    14VTR-1.09-Zlambda-stabilization.hpt

  18. #38
    Tuner in Training zugig's Avatar
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    Another thing to be mindful of is that this ECM takes a bit of time to adapt, typically a minimum of 45 miles for initial adaptation up to around 100 miles where the majority of adaptation is complete.

    Normally this results in positive changes in overall behavior, which is why sometimes I'll advise to "let it marinate" for awhile after a fresh write.
    Last edited by zugig; 4 Hours Ago at 05:23 AM.