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Thread: Torque Request Rate Limits

  1. #81
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    I tried to open it on an older atsv tune I had and not showing it same on a ctsv for some reason. So if your not seeing it on yours you might have to contact support and send them a read file from the car your wanting it on and have them add that ID numner to it. So far I see it on my 2017 zl1 with the auto and the m6 car tune I have. They did it more me in 3 days so was really quick to get it added. Just not sure why when I put the atsv in the compare file its not showing up as one to compare so might have to have support add it for other cars as I did.
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower SHC SBE boost only.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os
    2017 zl1 a10 big gulp/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /103mm tb / Synergy trunk tank and underhood kit/methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance R&D ported stock blower/ lme cnc heads /GP tuning custom cam. So far 9.30@150

  2. #82
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    I wonder if HP Tuners just has so many ECU's they work on now that they aren't defining the tables anymore unless people request them? I suppose my question is, why aren't they exposing tables before users ask for them?
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  3. #83
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriPinTaZ View Post
    I wonder if HP Tuners just has so many ECU's they work on now that they aren't defining the tables anymore unless people request them? I suppose my question is, why aren't they exposing tables before users ask for them?
    I wish there was a way to find these other then by accident on other ecms and using other software. I found this one on tunercat any one see anything going on here that might be useful? to me it looks like it just goes up with throttle almost linear. This is one I found on my zl1 using tunercat on it so far. Just looking for anything new.
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    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower SHC SBE boost only.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os
    2017 zl1 a10 big gulp/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /103mm tb / Synergy trunk tank and underhood kit/methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance R&D ported stock blower/ lme cnc heads /GP tuning custom cam. So far 9.30@150

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by lt1z350 View Post
    I tried to open it on an older atsv tune I had and not showing it same on a ctsv for some reason. So if your not seeing it on yours you might have to contact support and send them a read file from the car your wanting it on and have them add that ID numner to it. So far I see it on my 2017 zl1 with the auto and the m6 car tune I have. They did it more me in 3 days so was really quick to get it added. Just not sure why when I put the atsv in the compare file its not showing up as one to compare so might have to have support add it for other cars as I did.
    We found this one last year for the ATS-V in an A2L file. It was set to 7,500 foot-pounds across the board stock.
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  5. #85
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    So the way it’s setup it looks more like axle torque then engine torque. The limit on it is 48,000 not the typical 6042 max limit so that is telling me it’s an axle rating and 7500 isn’t a whole lot. The zl1 is way lower so might be how the car is just setup to use it. I’d still max it out and see what it does for your setup. My hope is it is part of the over all equation and raising it to extremes may play just a part in the puzzle and help. I had to get it over 5000 on some of the 2.0t stuff to make it have an affect. If it doesn’t help there is the way I’m doing it now and seeing gains. Virtual torque and taking the driver demand over to rpm like a z06 has and setting it up at the higher rpm to numbers closer to the top row down to 65 percent and so far that’s been making it close less and open faster. I am hoping this will make the final piece to making it act more like and auto on launch.
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower SHC SBE boost only.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os
    2017 zl1 a10 big gulp/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /103mm tb / Synergy trunk tank and underhood kit/methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance R&D ported stock blower/ lme cnc heads /GP tuning custom cam. So far 9.30@150

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by lt1z350 View Post
    So the way it’s setup it looks more like axle torque then engine torque. The limit on it is 48,000 not the typical 6042 max limit so that is telling me it’s an axle rating and 7500 isn’t a whole lot.
    Here is a correction to my above post. I forgot that I had edited this last year when we first found the table.

    On both the A8 and M6 ATS-Vs the table ranges from 37 to 476 foot-pounds. We tried upping the entire thing to 7,500 foot-pounds, but it made no difference in the launch.
    Last edited by Tapout Tuning; 04-07-2020 at 05:54 PM.
    2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (733 whp)
    2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (716 whp), 10.750 @ 134.77 mph
    2016 Cadillac ATS-Vs (eleven ATS-Vs in the 9s)
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the 10s), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2000 Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the 10s), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph
    1999 Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the 8s), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph
    1998 Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the 8s), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph
    1998 Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the 10s), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph

  7. #87
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    Interesting read. Anybody ever figure out how to get the TPS near 100% at low speeds? My 2017 Z06 A8 won't allow TPS=100% until 32 mph.
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  8. #88
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    I know this is an old thread - but trying to find info on mapped gears.

    These increasing and decreasing tables are for "Transmission gear 0-9" (8L90E TCM). I am trying to figure out neutral, park and reverse - obviously if 1-8 are actually 1-8 as well.

    Torque Management>General has mapped gears in there, not sure if it applies to the driver demand tables as well.
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    2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB

  9. #89
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    Being that the gear mapping config identifiers may be code based, it may not actually mean 1-8 are the 8 forward gears and 9 being reverse and 0 being neutral. It actually means there are a total of 10 "gears" starting at place holder zero (0). It could very well be 0-7 are the 8 forward gears, 8 is reverse and 9 is neutral. Or it could be 0 is neutral, 1 is reverse and 2-9 are the 8 forward gears.

    From my experience Driver Demand isn't tied to specific gears itself, but the rate limits could be. Torque Management > General > Maximum Torque RPM vs Gear is definitely per gear and is a limiter for Engine Torque and not Axle or Trans.

    There is another table under Fuel/Cutoff that has to do with torque delta allowed by gear. It is something I've rarely changed in fact the only reason I changed it was so that the owner could free rev to car to redline in neutral. This was a 2018 ZL1 1LE and no matter what you did with the rev limiter tables, he was still limited from revving past around 4000 RPM in neutral. It turned out to be the Fuel>Cutoff/DFCO>Cmd Torque Delta & Command Torque Tables needed to be maxed out for neutral. I'm not sure how invasive these tables are for automatic cars but maybe worth messing with.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriPinTaZ View Post
    Being that the gear mapping config identifiers may be code based, it may not actually mean 1-8 are the 8 forward gears and 9 being reverse and 0 being neutral. It actually means there are a total of 10 "gears" starting at place holder zero (0). It could very well be 0-7 are the 8 forward gears, 8 is reverse and 9 is neutral. Or it could be 0 is neutral, 1 is reverse and 2-9 are the 8 forward gears.

    From my experience Driver Demand isn't tied to specific gears itself, but the rate limits could be. Torque Management > General > Maximum Torque RPM vs Gear is definitely per gear and is a limiter for Engine Torque and not Axle or Trans.

    There is another table under Fuel/Cutoff that has to do with torque delta allowed by gear. It is something I've rarely changed in fact the only reason I changed it was so that the owner could free rev to car to redline in neutral. This was a 2018 ZL1 1LE and no matter what you did with the rev limiter tables, he was still limited from revving past around 4000 RPM in neutral. It turned out to be the Fuel>Cutoff/DFCO>Cmd Torque Delta & Command Torque Tables needed to be maxed out for neutral. I'm not sure how invasive these tables are for automatic cars but maybe worth messing with.
    12073 Commanded Torque can cause automatic cars to hang around and rpm before finally shifting, so I usually max it out in drive gears there as well with no effect on rev limiter.

  11. #91
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Guess it will be test and see for what gear is what for the rate tables

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevinn View Post
    12073 Commanded Torque can cause automatic cars to hang around and rpm before finally shifting, so I usually max it out in drive gears there as well with no effect on rev limiter.
    Interesting. I have one Zl1 that seems to shift 4-5 lazy at WOT no matter what I do. None of the other 10 speed cars have not been correctable. Maybe I'll try maxing the commanded torque to see if it helps. I know you didn't specify WOT shifting but I'm going to test it.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriPinTaZ View Post
    Interesting. I have one Zl1 that seems to shift 4-5 lazy at WOT no matter what I do. None of the other 10 speed cars have not been correctable. Maybe I'll try maxing the commanded torque to see if it helps. I know you didn't specify WOT shifting but I'm going to test it.
    Yep, that's exactly what I meant. It'll hold rpm for longer than you'd expect before shifting. Give it a shot. Rev limiter is still perfectly functional with this maxed out as well.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevinn View Post
    Yep, that's exactly what I meant. It'll hold rpm for longer than you'd expect before shifting. Give it a shot. Rev limiter is still perfectly functional with this maxed out as well.
    Updating the clients tune right now. Thanks for the tip!
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  15. #95
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    So after reading through this thread im seeing people talking about maps I don't think I have on my 15 z06. My question is, is anyone making changes in the map for the different modes or is that not needed? Do I just adjust the increasing tables to max and decreasing tables to max and it should help a ton. I see there is more to it but just trying to fix what the the guy that tuned my car did. He made some changes because I told him the pedal was lazy. But now there is a huge dead spot from 60% to 100% pedal where I feel like I don't get anymore throttle. The car was not happy and ruined my track day going into engine power reduced and throwing p0121 throttle/pedal position sensor a range/performance

  16. #96
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    I would not max the tables. It makes for a very jerky ride. I ended up changing all numbers by ~2x and it suited me well. I did some smoothing and also helped blend some certain gears - or trying to determine what the gear reference is, along with driver demand - to help some tip in jerks I was getting from backlash in the driveline. The high negative torque commands at 0 TPS to a sudden positive at 4-8% made for a jerky cruise (more audible than felt).

    Raising the decreasing throttle helped with the runaway feeling when going off throttle and allowed me to use higher 0 TPS driver demand values. I just had to find the limit where I could still engine brake coasting down a hill, but would allow me to coast better on a flat road without always being in the throttle. I hated having to give it throttle going down hill and how long it took to ?settle down? after giving it a high throttle input.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevinn View Post
    Yep, that's exactly what I meant. It'll hold rpm for longer than you'd expect before shifting. Give it a shot. Rev limiter is still perfectly functional with this maxed out as well.
    Didn't help the trans 4-5 shifting but we seemed to resolve that with higher torque coefficients. I normally never have to raise them that high but I went twice as high as I normally would and it works. Strange but thats why every car is different.
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  18. #98
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    I have a 17SS and see the tables but at the top is says: Increasing rate limit disabled. Is this right or do I need to enable it before changing tables??

    The 2 increase tables(Normal, Tap) are already maxed out but I'm guessing they don't do anything because of the Disable.

    Should I enable them??
    Last edited by DannyC; 09-23-2023 at 11:14 AM.
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  19. #99
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    Someone else can clarify as I'm drawing a "brain dead" moment, but disabled doesn't mean they're not used at all. They're only used for specific instances at that point and I want to say it's for initial take off and completely closed throttle, but I don't remember... I do know once enabled they'll affect everything drivability wise and is why I never max them out except for the tables where they already are. I address throttle response in background tables and then adjust the DD and these how they're supposed to be used as limiters for throttle control now vs just maxing things out.
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  20. #100
    I believe you are correct. I prefer to leave them disabled so they are only used for limited points and not full time. My car doesn't like the predicted stuff maxed out either (2016 SS A8 with a 2.9 Whipple)