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Thread: Torque Request Rate Limits

  1. #61
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    It's pulling down to -22 degrees of timing or you are only allowing the computer to drop to +22 degrees of timing?

    You always want a timing pull on shifts. Part throttle can be more than full throttle. Like have it drop to -10 to 0 degrees on light throttle and but depending on combo try to have at least some negative timing pull on the shift to help the transmission out.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    It's pulling down to -22 degrees of timing or you are only allowing the computer to drop to +22 degrees of timing?

    You always want a timing pull on shifts. Part throttle can be more than full throttle. Like have it drop to -10 to 0 degrees on light throttle and but depending on combo try to have at least some negative timing pull on the shift to help the transmission out.

    I didn't realize I have up tm disabled under torque reduction tab. turning it back on fixed. Thanks, oh and it was shift 22 degrees positive timing. lol that's why its was so hard at part throttle.

  3. #63
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Yeah, the high positive timing on the shifts will be a bad time lol.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  4. #64
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    definitely on light throttle input. it pretty nasty spinning tires on high rpm/high cylinder airmass shifts thought.

  5. #65
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    long time lurker first time posting, the ? i have is, has anybody disabled increasing rate limit, if so what did it do for u

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little B View Post
    There is an updated pedal assembly for Silverados too. Mine was the old part number(#20972082), ordered the new one(#23362231) that supposedly helps with the lazy pedal feel too.

    Thanks for this information, I checked mine out and I have the updated part number already. its stamped 5 29/15 so I'm going to assuming that is the manufacture date and probably only applies to early 2015 models and 2014 models.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4102sierra View Post
    long time lurker first time posting, the ? i have is, has anybody disabled increasing rate limit, if so what did it do for u
    A few people has disabled it and from what I've read they haven't seen any differences. I personally haven't tried it cause it mentions in the description that its for when the vehicle is stationary.

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  9. #69
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    Torque Rate Limit is enabled in my 2017 Z06. I plan to disable it and change the Torque Request Rate Limits to be similar to 2019+ cars. I haven't had a chance to test it yet though, maybe tomorrow.
    I've tuned a few things...

  10. #70
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    I figured out my "stumble" issue when maxing out these tables. I've bumped my idle up from stock 500 to 700 and it seems the fuel tables aren't really set correctly for this and its running rich. The LTFT is getting pulled back to -10% and as soon as I tap the throttle it goes back down to 0%. If I reset the LTFT learned values, and tap the throttle it responds very quickly and awesome like I'd expect. Looks like its time I learn how to adjust fuel delivery at idle now.

  11. #71
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastV View Post
    A few people has disabled it and from what I've read they haven't seen any differences. I personally haven't tried it cause it mentions in the description that its for when the vehicle is stationary.
    out of all the tables, one drop down box for Enable or Disable is for Vehicle Stationary. All the rest are not.

  12. #72
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    Throttle input crucial to smooth fast laps! No only if this virus will pass and roadracing courses will open back up so I can try out new edits to my tune!

    https://youtu.be/M1REVM3XR-4

  13. #73
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obd2 View Post
    so cool will see if I got them also. maybe this can be a solution to lazy throttle helping 60 foot times. full throttle only happens after 5mph.
    Cheers
    What vehicle are you seeing it not go wot till 5 mph? This is from a 1.40 60 foot on my zl1. The trick is now getting my buddies 17 m6 zl1 to do this too. lol Seems that adding to driver demand and virtaul torque tables has helped his a lot but still not opening all the way till 10 mph or so. Made ground on it but still lazy compared to the automatic.Been looking at these tables but they say disabled on my tune so I thought they were not active. Now reading it yet again see that is disabling it when vehicle is stationary. I wonder if this can help it have better throttle response in park and neutral. I have managed to make it command a whole 50 percent but no matter what I do yet to make the throttle open all the way when its at a stop and not in gear. I just started looking at that again and seems like driver demand is commanding it to stay down in the 40 percent range.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower/stock cam/stock heads boost only pass. Current record holder Builder/owner/tuner. 9.52@143 full weight pass.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os all around modules bcm added tapshift
    2017 zl1 a10 5 inch cold air/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /Soler engineering zr1 100mm tb / methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance full tilt V1

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by lt1z350
    This is from a 1.40 60 foot on my zl1. The trick is now getting my buddies 17 m6 zl1 to do this too. lol Seems that adding to driver demand and virtaul torque tables has helped his a lot but still not opening all the way till 10 mph or so. Made ground on it but still lazy compared to the automatic.
    I've been struggling with this issue on a 2018 Cadillac ATS-V with the same E92A ECM and M6 transmission. We have 700 foot-pounds of torque at the wheels, and have not been able to find a way to keep the throttle open in first gear. It only closes for about one quarter second, but that's long enough for the engine speed and boost to drop, which results in 60' time in the 1.85 to 2.05 second range.
    1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the tens), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph
    1998 Pontiac Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the eights), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph, driven by Tim King
    1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the eights), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph, driven by Bob Cook
    2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the twelves, elevens and tens), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph, driven by Ed Morad
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the tens), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2018 Cadillac ATS-V, 734 wtq

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lt1z350 View Post
    What vehicle are you seeing it not go wot till 5 mph? This is from a 1.40 60 foot on my zl1. The trick is now getting my buddies 17 m6 zl1 to do this too. lol Seems that adding to driver demand and virtaul torque tables has helped his a lot but still not opening all the way till 10 mph or so. Made ground on it but still lazy compared to the automatic.Been looking at these tables but they say disabled on my tune so I thought they were not active. Now reading it yet again see that is disabling it when vehicle is stationary. I wonder if this can help it have better throttle response in park and neutral. I have managed to make it command a whole 50 percent but no matter what I do yet to make the throttle open all the way when its at a stop and not in gear. I just started looking at that again and seems like driver demand is commanding it to stay down in the 40 percent range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapout Tuning View Post
    I've been struggling with this issue on a 2018 Cadillac ATS-V with the same E92A ECM and M6 transmission. We have 700 foot-pounds of torque at the wheels, and have not been able to find a way to keep the throttle open in first gear. It only closes for about one quarter second, but that's long enough for the engine speed and boost to drop, which results in 60' time in the 1.85 to 2.05 second range.
    Have you tried lowering the Virtual Torque in the problem areas? Below stock values.
    I've tuned a few things...

  16. #76
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriPinTaZ View Post
    Have you tried lowering the Virtual Torque in the problem areas? Below stock values.
    I had thought about that route at first as I do believe it is on some torque limit we do not have access to so have to tune around this missing table. I am trying to get hptuners to add this table I did on the 2.0t e80a cars. Its a over speed limit table that limits torque by speed. i know on those little turbo cars it helped me with some throttle closure issues when I started getting cars upwards of 370whp. I put a screen shot of it just waiting on engineering to see if can add it to the e92 or not. This table is not stock on the 2.0t its in the 100s on launch and around 106 its only in the 300s. The values I have in it now even helped them make a lot of boost on brake boosting it with out doing crazy things to torque tables. I figured it was worth a shot on these as it made sense on the speed to torque. I had found this table on the car using efilive and the guys tuning with that said it was helping so added it here.

    I worked a lot on a 17 zl1 manual this weekend shooting a buddy back and forth tunes to try and i did hit on some thing. One I managed to get it to hit 90 percent tps and make 11 psi on a free rev. Car sounds like a differnt animal with it actually opening the throttle. With these changes it also was able to get to full throttle by about 14 mph and only limited it to 55 percent when the clutch was dumped at 5k rpm.
    First these cars are on the vss table not like a manual corvette that is on a rpm based table. So I first copied over the z06 rpm based table then got to raising the throttle points on the table where it was closing the throttle.
    I also went in and raised the virtual torque a lot in those same areas while I was thinking of going down on it like people did on the autos before the tcm was tuneable as we dont have to worry about pressure loss here. But I still first went up with it and so far seems to be helping alot. I hate changing so much at one time but nothing ever changes on these with one table ever really. So I am not 100 percent sure which is helping more but so far its a lot better. the fact it can make 8-11 psi free rev it sounds amazing. Now Im hoping that on my auto I can do the samething. The manual changes its predected and immediate torque sources different then an auto does and I think its due to working off kw like olderr cars rather then the dirver demand working off axle torque like the automatics do.
    I am attempting to make the vss based table now work like the rpm based as I did find raising the limits as I did its commanding a lot of throttle even driving so hope that the vss I can raise limits from 20 mph down and accomplish the same thing yet not affect it when normal driving. I fiigure worst case I set one table up for the track and launching and leave the touring mode for daily driving so its not so jumpy when driving it. I was seeing it command 90 percent tps at 70 percent pedal when driving and really didnt like that part of the rpm based driver demand. I just have to play with it more. Here are a few screen shots I dont want to post tunes here so someone can go make money off it but I do want to help people willing to work with me and try to get this figured out especially if on a personal car or friends. I just dont want someone trying to copy a tune more then amything. My car is with out hte blower its back at jokerz getting the latest port but when get that back will be working on my own too as this whole lazy throttle has always bugged me on my own car.
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower/stock cam/stock heads boost only pass. Current record holder Builder/owner/tuner. 9.52@143 full weight pass.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os all around modules bcm added tapshift
    2017 zl1 a10 5 inch cold air/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /Soler engineering zr1 100mm tb / methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance full tilt V1

  17. #77
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapout Tuning View Post
    I've been struggling with this issue on a 2018 Cadillac ATS-V with the same E92A ECM and M6 transmission. We have 700 foot-pounds of torque at the wheels, and have not been able to find a way to keep the throttle open in first gear. It only closes for about one quarter second, but that's long enough for the engine speed and boost to drop, which results in 60' time in the 1.85 to 2.05 second range.
    Scott if still got my email I can show you some of this stuff I found on the manual zl1. If willing to share data im sure we can nail this as I am getting close. my issue is its a buddies car and its so hard to get a good test on the street unless car hooks. Ifi it spins it will open so it has to hook up to get the throttle to act up and close.
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower/stock cam/stock heads boost only pass. Current record holder Builder/owner/tuner. 9.52@143 full weight pass.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os all around modules bcm added tapshift
    2017 zl1 a10 5 inch cold air/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /Soler engineering zr1 100mm tb / methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance full tilt V1

  18. #78
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    so the overspeed limit is added to the newest beta now. It sure is easy to do this if you have a table ID number. Too bad we cant get some way of finding these tables that are missing as sure their are many that would help. Im not sure if will help but the stock value at 0 mph is 0 torque then at 13 mph its 130 26 mph 180. The manual on stock setting starts to add throttle at 14 mph and stock its completed by 25 mph typically. So thats two step up on torque that its responding to. Yes the values dont seem to line up at all but maybe it will help as it did on the 4 cylinders. Download the newest beta and have access to it. Now need to test it out hopefully this eveing I can get a log from my buddy on these changes.
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower/stock cam/stock heads boost only pass. Current record holder Builder/owner/tuner. 9.52@143 full weight pass.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os all around modules bcm added tapshift
    2017 zl1 a10 5 inch cold air/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /Soler engineering zr1 100mm tb / methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance full tilt V1

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by lt1z350 View Post
    so the overspeed limit is added to the newest beta now. It sure is easy to do this if you have a table ID number. Too bad we cant get some way of finding these tables that are missing as sure their are many that would help. Im not sure if will help but the stock value at 0 mph is 0 torque then at 13 mph its 130 26 mph 180. The manual on stock setting starts to add throttle at 14 mph and stock its completed by 25 mph typically. So thats two step up on torque that its responding to. Yes the values dont seem to line up at all but maybe it will help as it did on the 4 cylinders. Download the newest beta and have access to it. Now need to test it out hopefully this eveing I can get a log from my buddy on these changes.
    Thanks for all your efforts on this! What is the new table ID please?
    1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (first 3800 FWD in the tens), 9.499 @ 145.13 mph
    1998 Pontiac Firebird (first 3800 RWD in the eights), 843 whp, 8.991 @ 152.12 mph, driven by Tim King
    1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GT (first 3800 FWD in the eights), 8.902 @ 154.90 mph, driven by Bob Cook
    2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi (first 3800 Bonneville in the twelves, elevens and tens), 10.711 @ 125.71 mph, driven by Ed Morad
    2008 Pontiac G8 (first G8 in the tens), 10.727 @ 129.87 mph
    2018 Cadillac ATS-V, 734 wtq

  20. #80
    Advanced Tuner lt1z350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapout Tuning View Post
    Thanks for all your efforts on this! What is the new table ID please?
    19049
    No problem scott..
    First 9 second 6th gen lt4 zl1 stock blower/stock cam/stock heads boost only pass. Current record holder Builder/owner/tuner. 9.52@143 full weight pass.

    2013 cadillac ats 2.0t Big turbo-gone
    2007 tahoe 5.3 lsa blower on 14 lbs boost 6l80e swap 2009 os all around modules bcm added tapshift
    2017 zl1 a10 5 inch cold air/2 inch headers/ 9.55 lower/ e85/bigger hx /Soler engineering zr1 100mm tb / methanol injection with torqbyte controller and prometh pump / Jokerz performance full tilt V1