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Thread: Is it necessary to tune VVE for just adding headers?

  1. #1
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    Is it necessary to tune VVE for just adding headers?

    Can I just tune my MAF on my '17 Camaro ss with headers or do I need to tune the VVE table? I've been looking at various tunes and it looks like most people don't touch the vve table. Thanks for replies

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training Mbrowning's Avatar
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    I would set the High rpm disable at 800/ re enable at 750 and use MAF. It's much easier to tune and I think it gives the engine a "crisper" throttle response.
    Browning Performance

  3. #3
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    You may be surprised at how a bone stock vehicle drives by tuning the VVE yet alone after headers. Both MAF and VVE are very important on the gen V platform and I recommend tuning both and utilizing both. I noticed a difference on how my 2015 Silverado shifted after tuning VVE a little with no other modifications or tune tables being touched.

    After adding headers, CAI, 6.2 intake manifold and throttle body, the truck started really doing strange things until I started getting the VVE dialed in better and I'm still going.

    I dialed the MAF in first and drove it most days in MAF enabled then work on the VVE as I got time. As it got better I drove blended and you can just tell there are subtle differences in drive-ability and how smooth everything is.

    I'm no expert and am still a newbie but from what I have read and experienced the last 3 years on here, the internet and trial and error on my own vehicle, the VVE is important on the gen V and should not be left out if you want solid, consistent and proper results.

    I'm sure others will chime in and answers will be mixed but I wanted to share my personal experience and preference.

  4. #4
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    I know this is the Gen V forum BUT...

    I noticed a HUGE difference in driveability and better shifting once I tuned VVE (Gen IV). Well... Im runing a 2-bar OS but it made a difference either way. It takes longer to tune VVE but its worth it.
    Last edited by jaydubb71; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:13 AM.
    Daily Driver= 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Coupe (3.4 pulley, SD Headers, SLP catback, FWI, 180 t-stat, hotwired FP, Autolite 103's, poly dogbone bushings, solid rubber engine and trans mounts, self tuned with HP Tuners)
    Weekend Cruiser= 2009 Pontiac G8 GT (Vararam, TSP LS3 N/A Stage 1, OBX, CTS-V converter, MagnaFlows w/ J-Pipes, 160 t-stat, self tuned with HP Tuners)
    Project Car= 1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS (On3 7875, LM7 build on hold)
    Truck= 1995 K1500 ECSB 5.0 5-speed (Dusty...)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbrowning View Post
    I would set the High rpm disable at 800/ re enable at 750 and use MAF. It's much easier to tune and I think it gives the engine a "crisper" throttle response.
    So you?re talking disable dynamic airflow permantly? Or just while tuning maf?

  6. #6
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    What I'm gathering is that its not absolutely necessary but will probably result in better drivability at lower rpms. Thanks guys

  7. #7
    Tuner in Training Mbrowning's Avatar
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    You can go either way. With just headers, I would run Maf only above 800.

  8. #8
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    To be done the right way even on a bone stock car/truck the VVE should still be tuned even if the vehicle is being run MAF only. These aren't the days of the much simpler Gen III LS based operating systems anymore, the volumetric efficiency is still a big part of airflow and torque calculations yes even if the car is set to run MAF only.
    2012 Chevy Cruze 1.4T A6

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner IARLLC's Avatar
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    Simply put, when you hit the gas the MAF won't even find out it happened for a while. The MAF is down around the corner. However, the MAP is right there in the manifold and it knows the very moment vacuum drops...........so well tuned VVE has to improve the PCM's ability to give the right amount of gas at exactly the right time.

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training Mbrowning's Avatar
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    I'm sticking to my guns on this one. It is not necessary to tune a factory vve table to put a set of headers on. Will it help? Yes. How much? Probably not enough to notice. The factory does a pretty good job of getting it close. Things can get out of whack pretty quick with a cam/ head swap or forced induction. At that point it has to be done.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner IARLLC's Avatar
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    A reduction in knock retard right when you hit the gas, due to getting the right amount of gas right when you hit it, is quite noticeable. On older V6 P04, tuning VE had questionable value because it the PCM doesn't even look at the table unless the MAF fails. Not so with everything newer. The PCM needs that info in order to make transitions well.

    All MAF and MAP sensors are off by a bit as are temp sensors and and etc. Stock GMs, with 50,000 miles, airflow models are off by 5-13% or so. They run "fine" because of (slow) closed loop correction but they run better after tuning. That is the point of tuning....improvement. Take out cats and/or add headers and the airflow models are often off by more than 20%. Yes, both calibrations are wrong by 20%. It will help to tune the MAF....and it will help more to tune the VE. If you tune the MAF without the VE, the further the calibrations get from each other, the logic in the PCM throws MAF and/or MAP codes.

    Sure, I have been surprised by how responsive an engine can be in certain situations with just the MAF...but not overall. My clients are not going to go to some other tuner after me and then get improvements that I would have gotten if I had been willing to spend the time on their calibration.