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Thread: YSi LS7 NEED HELP!!!

  1. #21
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    Thank you for your concern, however I only listed mods that were pertinent to my question. This isnt my first rodeo building engines or tuning cars. According to what I did look up using both fuel injector clinic and injecor dynamics flow calculators I would be more likely to "make for a big boom" using your shitty advice and running 1300cc injectors at 100% duty cycle and waiting for one of them not to be able to keep up with the demands. Thank you for your input, but if you want to bicker over the internet please do it on someone else's post.
    -Mike

  2. #22
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    as far as i am aware the bosch 210lb injectors are not designed for liquid fuel so will not last long on ethanol unless cleaned out all the time then can not sit around if car is rarely driven they are not stainless internals, i used some for a couple years till they decided to get stuck open every time i cranked, having the stoich all maxed out will not work with flex that table has to be a exact multipler of what it is stock and setup right to work, when i had the bosch 210lb on e85 i was on maxed stoich and 63.5lb flat flow rate at 43.5psi rail pressure (boost referanced) divide ivt terms by 3 with injector data and it ran fine idled fine leave other multipliers on 1.0, ive gone back to a smaller injector and it all works way better as dumping alot of fuel at once has other affects so if ur not using the 210lb upto 85% duty then id recomend a smaller injector like 1300, 1500, 1700 designed for ethanol fuels

  3. #23
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    Thank you very much for your response 07GTS, I appreciate the direction and experienced shared. What you stated is currently where i am at with the injectors/tune, it runs and idles fine now, however i have yet to be able to do more tuning due to poor weather. I have been experimenting with changing the stoich to match the stock curve for blended fuel/e85 (although still scaled to compensate the injectors), i wont know if it works until i am able to do more tuning and switch to e85. If i can get the flex fuel to work i will probably run this way for the rest of the year before switching to a better injector. I will definitely be sure not to store it with E85 for the winter or extended periods of time. If you don't mind me asking, what size injectors are you running and what is your current horsepower level?

    Thanks for the help,

    Mike

  4. #24
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    418ci using a 50/50 split of MS109 and X98 turns 1000RWHP at approx 6400rpm 9.5:1 compression 16psi boost on a TVS2300 spinning 13.5K.
    It runs ID1050s @65% duty cycle with a max pulse width of 12.998ms @5400 rpm.
    Heads ported/polished
    108mm intake
    ls9 block / steal sleeves
    stroked to achieve 418
    Callies DragonSlayer crank
    Callies Ultra-I beam rods
    ARP studs/bolts all around
    2" headers
    various other mods

    TVS2300 @ 23.5K (over-spinning the 18K recommended limit) moves 1775 cfm and can only make 16psi on a 418

    V-7 YSi according to Vortec moves a MAX of 1600 cfm and can only make ?? psi on a 427

    ID 1300s according to injector dynamics will be @89% duty cycle @ 7K on 427ci at 20psi and 78% duty cycle @ 7k 15psi. V-7 YSi will most likely not make 20 on 427.

    We all know psi equals heat and is only a pressure/restriction measurement so cfm flow of air is as important if not more important than just the boost number. 1600 cfm is 175 cfm short of the TVS2300. Most likely your V-7 YSi will not make 20 on your 427 but closer to 14-15. If so the ID1300s are only 78% duty cycle @ 7k. and FIC 127lb injectors which are larger than my ID1050s would also work but be at the limit all the way around. So numbers are accurate.
    ID1300.jpgZL1-1200.PNGDynoRun.jpg
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeved LS9, No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6400 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6400 rpm
    999rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6400 rpm

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThePilot View Post
    Thank you very much for your response 07GTS, I appreciate the direction and experienced shared. What you stated is currently where i am at with the injectors/tune, it runs and idles fine now, however i have yet to be able to do more tuning due to poor weather. I have been experimenting with changing the stoich to match the stock curve for blended fuel/e85 (although still scaled to compensate the injectors), i wont know if it works until i am able to do more tuning and switch to e85. If i can get the flex fuel to work i will probably run this way for the rest of the year before switching to a better injector. I will definitely be sure not to store it with E85 for the winter or extended periods of time. If you don't mind me asking, what size injectors are you running and what is your current horsepower level?

    Thanks for the help,

    Mike
    at the moment im building my engine to properly handle boost and have got some bosch 1500cc that ill run on 43.5psi base which should be about where i was before on 1000cc@43.5psi i was running them at 70psi rising to 85psi on boost and with E85, i was going to go the ID1300 but the AUS dollar is just crap at the moment so they are not cheap over here, with small exhaust i made 720rhp HTV2300 blower but went twin 3" and ported TB so im somewhere over that now before the rebuild

  6. #26
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    Thank you for the response 07GTS!
    -Mike

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    418ci using a 50/50 split of MS109 and X98 turns 1000RWHP at approx 6400rpm 9.5:1 compression 16psi boost on a TVS2300 spinning 13.5K.
    It runs ID1050s @65% duty cycle with a max pulse width of 12.998ms @5400 rpm.
    Heads ported/polished
    108mm intake
    ls9 block / steal sleeves
    stroked to achieve 418
    Callies DragonSlayer crank
    Callies Ultra-I beam rods
    ARP studs/bolts all around
    2" headers
    various other mods

    TVS2300 @ 23.5K (over-spinning the 18K recommended limit) moves 1775 cfm and can only make 16psi on a 418

    V-7 YSi according to Vortec moves a MAX of 1600 cfm and can only make ?? psi on a 427

    ID 1300s according to injector dynamics will be @89% duty cycle @ 7K on 427ci at 20psi and 78% duty cycle @ 7k 15psi. V-7 YSi will most likely not make 20 on 427.

    We all know psi equals heat and is only a pressure/restriction measurement so cfm flow of air is as important if not more important than just the boost number. 1600 cfm is 175 cfm short of the TVS2300. Most likely your V-7 YSi will not make 20 on your 427 but closer to 14-15. If so the ID1300s are only 78% duty cycle @ 7k. and FIC 127lb injectors which are larger than my ID1050s would also work but be at the limit all the way around. So numbers are accurate.
    ID1300.jpgZL1-1200.PNGDynoRun.jpg

    I max out my 2.5 OS pretty easy (5800 rpm) with my 2200R (YSI), I know a few others that make well into the 20's. Are 210's to much? probably, but the theory taught to most people is buy your fuel system to your future plans. I definitely wouldn't want the task of try to make a car idle at 800 rpm on pump gas with 210's and no real data but it can be done.

  8. #28
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZincGT View Post
    I max out my 2.5 OS pretty easy (5800 rpm) with my 2200R (YSI), I know a few others that make well into the 20's. Are 210's to much? probably, but the theory taught to most people is buy your fuel system to your future plans. I definitely wouldn't want the task of try to make a car idle at 800 rpm on pump gas with 210's and no real data but it can be done.
    Need more data. Sorry. I have no info on the setup.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeved LS9, No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6400 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6400 rpm
    999rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6400 rpm

  9. #29
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    Thank you for the response ZincGT! I have a feeling with my cam and pulley set up i will be pretty close to my estimate, based on others experience. I have the 210's Idling pretty darn well, only time will tell if they will be able to do all i ask of them. We have some nice weather ahead of us finally so I should be able to wrap up my initial low boost tune on 93 this coming week. I will post up the tune and some data logs when I get to that point.

    -Mike

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    Need more data. Sorry. I have no info on the setup.
    2200r 2.7" upper 8.25" lower 402 with PRC heads 24x 25x cam. I live in denver and it makes 19psi here, when I go to Texas for 2k it pegs 255 kpa (22.4 psi) at 5800rpm, I tune a ysi/427 with brodix heads that makes 17psi up here. Both cars have trapped 150+ with 8k DA. "Unreal" in AZ made over 20psi on his 427/ysi setup.

  11. #31
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    "2200r 2.7" upper 8.25" lower 402 with PRC heads 24x 25x cam" ID 1300x2 will be 78% on e85 at 17psi. this assumes sea-level at 5000 feet you would be more like 60-65%. You should be able to run FIC 127s and not have to scale if 2010 or later ECM.
    At 4400 feet:
    418ci using a 50/50 split of MS109 and X98 turns 1000RWHP at approx 6400rpm 9.5:1 compression 16psi boost on a TVS2300 spinning 13.5K.
    It runs ID1050s @65% duty cycle with a max pulse width of 12.998ms @5400 rpm.
    Last edited by jsllc; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:18 AM.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeved LS9, No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6400 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6400 rpm
    999rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6400 rpm

  12. #32
    I'm not sure what your are getting at with my car. I run ID1700s with no issues in a 06 ecu and its scaled and works fine. You challenged that a YSI couldn't make 20psi on a 427, I'm telling you that they can and its pretty common.

  13. #33
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    Good to hear. Though was not my claim (my poor explanation). I would not expect 20psi. I have same issue. TVS2350 with 16psi generates more heat and less flow (less power) than a TVS2650 at 14psi. Also TVS2300 (and any other driven adder) parasitic drag/loss increases with PSI over the lower PSI adder. Sadly no TV2650s fit under my hood yet.

    As for PSI it is just resistance to airflow and a heat creator. Used to force air on a path. Airflow itself is the goal. Can change the PSI up on any car by decreasing airflow.

    Three different cams same Dart Block car (not mine)

    19psi - 875 rwhp e85
    17psi - 925 rwhp using same timing and e85
    16psi - 965 rwhp e85

    Injectors need to match airflow of the engine not necessarily PSI of power adder and I assume (bad word) that goal is max rwhp, Sometimes there are owners have other goals for engine. VERY poor assumption on my part. All things the same PSI usually means more power. Always means more heat. If things change then PSI may not be more power. Lower PSI is always less heat and may be more power. Kenne Bell, which I do not personally use, has 1000s of hours of dyno time and info on the subject. I have demonstrated many times on a dyno. Engine with less boost and 24 degrees of timing generates more HP/TQ than the same engine with more boost and 12 degrees on same fuel type yet will use about the same amount of fuel. Sorry I did such a poor job of explaining my point. If goal is 1000rwhp then may work fine with smaller injectors less boost and yield more power while allowing for better idle fuel control.
    Last edited by jsllc; 1 Week Ago at 12:27 PM.
    2012 ZL1 - Maggie Heartbeat, Port & Polish Heads, Custom Cam, Custom rotating assembly, steel sleeved LS9, No NOS and No water meth. 16psi
    810rwhp and 820rwtq 91 Octane 6400 rpm
    948rwhp and 951rwtq 105 Octane 6400 rpm
    999rwhp and 997rwtq on 60% Ethanol 6400 rpm