Supercharged 5.7 with 6.2 cam
Hey guys, I recently installed a 6.2 cam in my supercharged 5.7 challenger (manual). I am about to mess with the tune and plan to copy over the VVT tables from a hell cat. I want the car to run decent enough so I can drive it to get tuned on a dyno to finally see what this rig is putting out. I will take some logs to make sure fueling and spark are not outta wack but my question is, is it as simple as that?
I don't see why not,Originally Posted by Homer
04 GTX........ 8.91@151mph 392Ci G3Hemi NA 3600lbs 2.6HP/CI Naturally Aspirated
05 GTxtreme 9:45@142mph 426Ci G3Hemi NA 4000lbs
G3 Hemi Videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClS...5mXdDR5sOxs10Q
I guess I will find out soon enough. Still have to finish buttoning up the car.
So I take it NN training must be updated as well? I just don't under stand why the min and max are not identical between cam tables and NN training?
NN training values.JPGsettings.JPG
Not sure why I never see 134-135 degrees exh even though the tables call for it. I know on the 6.4s (6.2 cam is similiar with more duration) you will see 135 at idle (full advance) but most I see on my 5.7 with the updated tables is 125-128 degree? Cam was installed correctly (triple check and even took snapshots of the alignment in case I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about it) and made sure not to nick the bearings.
Last edited by Homer; 10-09-2019 at 03:50 PM.
No limiter installed?
Nope, no need for one. Did not touch the phaser except to take it off and put it back on.
What were you seeing with the 5.7 cam before you swapped? Is the idle setting unavailable?
Prior to the cam swap, I would see ~125 degree exh at idle as well. So is it the phaser? All latest gen hemis use 53022243AF. Could it be the position of the cam sensor in the timing cover? Well it can't be the cover its the same between a 5.7 and 6.4 68416971AA.
According to this thread stock cams should see about 135 degrees at idle but I have never seen more than ~128 degree with either cam? Although I should look at what the desired cam degree is. Yup desired and actual are 125 degree just prior to start up and idle.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...&highlight=vvt
I even looked at the tuning school example log files. Stock 6.4 Ram shows 130 degrees and the 2015 charger 5.7 shows 124 degrees at idle? Only thing I can think of is the crankshafts are clocked a little different as the crank sprockets are the same for a 5.7 and 6.4?
Last edited by Homer; 10-10-2019 at 11:00 AM.
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/84/84eba6...b29aae0f58.jpg
Try table 36550?
I copied all the tables from a 6.2 which sets it at 134 degrees. But at idle and even KOEO the cam is fully advanced (phaser clock spring does so) so shouldn't I be seeing 135 degree exhaust? I don't understand why I am 10 degrees off? Or maybe I am totally misunderstanding VVT.
Is it hard coded into the PCM? I mean it shows exhaust as 125 degrees with KOEO which I assume is the prescribed baseline and then relies on the cam position sensor pulses to denote cam movement once the engine is running.
Last edited by Homer; 10-10-2019 at 11:19 AM.
I though Pages 172-175 would shed some light on this but it does not. It does however, give a good description of how VVT (or VCT) functions. Page 175 apparently shows full advance, full retard (lock-pin).
http://perception.fcaperformanceinstitute.com/FCARepository_con/topiccontent/1588106484/0121716.pdf
My question is, what table (if it exists in VCM) is telling the PCM the cam position on KOEO/idle?
Last edited by Homer; 10-10-2019 at 11:18 PM.
Did you log desired yet?
In post #9 I said I looked at desired (it was logged but did not pay attention) and it desires 125...yet none of my tables desire 125 at idle?
Can you share your tune? I'll help look to see if I can find somewhere it's coming from.
I doubt it's a mechanical issue.
I also have an idea if it's not a table we can find.
Original and modified tune can be found here (basically just copied VVT from a 6.2 stock tune):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jU...oiW9amPss7k9R-
But I have looked everywhere and there is nothing that I can see that can change this. Maybe it is OS related?
BTW the tune in that link has NN exhaust min/max set to a 5.7 spec but I changed it to the 6.2 spec and same thing.
Last edited by Homer; 10-10-2019 at 02:35 PM.
Did you try 3388?
Also copy over 36546?
Last edited by spoolboy; 10-10-2019 at 02:42 PM.
Yes, I added in my last post that the max/min training values were copied as well...same thing. Did not copy the enable rpm table as my car is well over that mileage and the enable rpms specified by the 5.7 are lower than that of the 6.2.
Anyone know what the difference is between exhaust max and exhaust lock-pin is or exhaust max phase and exhaust min is?
To me it seems redundant because apparently lock-pin is full cam advance and max phase is full cam retard, no?
I mean, how can exhaust max exceed exhaust lock-pin?
I have tried copying the 6.2 and 6.4 VVT tables and apparently it still does not change the fact that at idle my 5.7 shows desired and actual exhaust cam angle is 125 degrees, which can't be since the cam now has a different LSA. I thought by copying the 6.2 tables the 5.7 PCM would now behave as it had a 6.2 cam in it but it appears to no be the case. Changing the other tables does swing the cam how I want but does this mean I should offset those values by 10 degrees...if that makes sense?
Also, according to the tables below the VVT can swing the cam a total of 35-37 degrees or +/-17.5 to 18.5 degrees. I always thought it was more like +/-14 degrees?
cam.JPG
Last edited by Homer; 10-14-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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