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Thread: Fuel Economy and Less Regens

  1. #41
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    I'm far from done with it yet. I plan on wideband, reinstalling stock intake, logging afr to maf cells, installing S&B again - logging for correction, unplugging a certain something and then restarting Discovered some things while going over logs that finally clicked "for some stupid reason" while I was comparing hpt's tables to EFI Lives..... This all depends on the dealership finally fixing the engine of course too - injectors damaged something while they were acting up - fired it up one cold morning with the bad ones and it went to knocking and bouncing the front of the truck up and down for about 10 or so seconds before smoothing back out - was hoping I got by without damage, but doesn't appear so as it now has a pecking/knocking sound "sounds like a wrist pin knock" and it's still showing light throttle misfires on cylinders 2 and 3 after they installed the new injectors :/ Really losing faith in this motor.....
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    No Longer with passion performance auto for good reasons

  2. #42
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    I'm far from done with it yet. I plan on wideband, reinstalling stock intake, logging afr to maf cells, installing S&B again - logging for correction, unplugging a certain something and then restarting Discovered some things while going over logs that finally clicked "for some stupid reason" while I was comparing hpt's tables to EFI Lives..... This all depends on the dealership finally fixing the engine of course too - injectors damaged something while they were acting up - fired it up one cold morning with the bad ones and it went to knocking and bouncing the front of the truck up and down for about 10 or so seconds before smoothing back out - was hoping I got by without damage, but doesn't appear so as it now has a pecking/knocking sound "sounds like a wrist pin knock" and it's still showing light throttle misfires on cylinders 2 and 3 after they installed the new injectors :/ Really losing faith in this motor.....
    When did your engine start acting up? Was it acting up during the time you were tuning and posting data on here?

  3. #43
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    It had bad injectors again or going bad injectors again just before I started messing with it, which I 100% know kind of throws things out the window... However it did help open my eyes to some things with how it was performing, soooo... Knocking wasn't present until I was driving it with the stock tune a couple of days after getting it back with the new injectors... Truck went to hopping up and down the week prior... Even then it fired up and ran smooth for maybe 4 or 5 seconds and then one stuck open - ran that way for 10 to 15 seconds without load and then went back to purring like a kitten... Truck was on stock tune before and after injector replacement because I wanted to take it to them with the codes present and set for the misfires and driven stock 1 week after when knocking was first heard... Only originally heard knocking / pecking noise in stop and go traffic 2 days after replacement... Assume damage was done on that rough cold start morning with the stock tune... Starting doing research into these motors and found some of the first ones had wrist pin, piston, rod bearing issues on top of injector problems - something in manufacturing/tempering of parts... Most engines with these issues are showing problems anywhere from 60 to 80some thousand miles on the odometers where pins are ovaling, collapsing, cracking / letting loose - conveniently just out of most peoples warranties... GM is keeping this under wraps, but have let it slip to some... So far that I know of these engines have piston/rod pin issues, turbo unison rings sticking and bending issues and injector problems... I did get the new part number for the injectors and have never had any turbo problems, but piston and rods are up in the air at the moment....... Like I said before, not sure if I'll still have this truck after this is all said and done or another smaller chevy diesel in general Too many corner cuts lately with this company or it's just simply a supplier problem as I know some engineers and they've said that even in the last 3 months companies all alike have been having metallurgy issues with parts coming from certain parts of the world where they're seeing very fast premature wear... I've even gone as far as reaching out to AM companies already to find out how much a set of pistons would cost to get made - it's about $500 per piston if anyone's interested and then a set of $800ish rods...

    To date while my truck has been 100% stock, I have had backup camera problems, transmission lines explode, Nox sensor issues, rear pinion bearings fail, multiple flash updates, alternator go out, 5th injector leaking causing a drastic loss in economy and now two sets of injectors all go bad with 87000 and some change on the odometer... I also don't believe you'll find anyone take as good of care of one... Maintenance has been hotshot, diesel clean, howl's, and now schaeffer fuel additives, ran the junk dexos oil up until 50000 when I changed to the extremely good schaeffer euro 5w30 oil with MOA additive "worth it's weight in gold", 2 tcase services, 2 diff services, 2 trans internal filter services, 2 induction/egr service's, 2 crankcase flushes with turbo cycling... Turbo shaft and bearings were very tight and spun very very easily when I installed the S&B a month ago... Not to mention all of the fuel filters that were spotless and airfilter services... Not to mention all of the highway this thing sees... I'm a firm believer in maintenance and until this vehicle has never let me down :/

    Edit - post #5 is when I discovered my injectors going bad again...
    Last edited by GHuggins; 01-18-2020 at 12:23 PM.
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    No Longer with passion performance auto for good reasons

  4. #44
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    What is the richest lambda value that the diesel gauge would need to display ?

  5. #45
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    I'm pretty sure most target around an 18:1 afr, so 10 or 12 should be beyond rich enough for displaying purposes. As for logging maybe a touch richer, but don't see the point other than correction factors?
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    No Longer with passion performance auto for good reasons

  6. #46
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.mike View Post
    What is the richest lambda value that the diesel gauge would need to display ?
    Yes i agree with GHuggins 10-12AFR at the lowest would be fine just to know how far off we are, just in case i accidentally fat finger some numbers. lol.
    Wow Ghiggins that's some crazy issues with your truck! I'd be upset if i had half of those issues! So are you on the hook for fixing the truck or is GM?

  7. #47
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    Don't know for sure yet... I've got gmpp which is nothing more than a gm warranty that your have to pay a deductible on... SM at the dealership has already given me some crap, tech says he's going to do his best to get me taken care of - it pays to have friends in the dealership Other than that - I'm not 100% sure... Tech has heard and confirmed the noise / issue as being present when he rode with me - you can even feel it in the floor board, SM called me up and said nothing was wrong and had to come get it and give his loaner back - tech then said to ignore him and he would take care of it as well as gm would allow him to, Soooo...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    No Longer with passion performance auto for good reasons

  8. #48
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    OK. So :

    1. Stoic ratio for AFR = 14.5
    2. Lambda digit range 0.000 - 6.999
    3. AFR Digit range 8.0 - 99.99
    4. Analog output 0.5v = 0.5lambda 4.5v 0 4.500lambda ( makes tranform math REAL easy )
    5. needle LEDs maybe 12afr- 95afr (~ 0.8lambda - 6.5lambda )
    6. Serial data 0.0-99.9AFR
    7. Never goes " - - -"


    Would that do it ?

  9. #49
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    Looks good to me, but I'll let Jaeger confirm for sure...

    Only question I have is how well the sensor may hold up in the exhaust since diesel egt's are regularly in the 900 to 1200 range - guess it could be lifted out via extension slightly? Thoughts?

    I'm personally glad to see this happening - I always prefer good data for tuning... I still need to get back with hpt and see how the table adding is going or not going... Thank You as always Dr.Mike
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    No Longer with passion performance auto for good reasons

  10. #50
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    The sensor's heater tries to keep the sensor element at 650C (1200F). If the EGT's go higher than that, the controller will lose temperature control of the sensor (error). I would, probably, add one of those Innovate bung-extender/heat-sink doodads. And, maybe, move the bung further down-stream.

    It's rapid temperature swings that kill the sensors. They, actually, prefer to be, a bit, on the hot side. But, they HATE rapid heating/cooling.

    It's the soot/particulates from a diesel that I worry about. Maybe someone would want to run a periodic sensor calibration test procedure to log the results.

  11. #51
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    Sorry for the newbie question, but does anyone know if these principles would transfer to an LML? My truck is 100% stock, just would like a little better mileage and better pedal response.

  12. #52
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Don't know for sure yet... I've got gmpp which is nothing more than a gm warranty that your have to pay a deductible on... SM at the dealership has already given me some crap, tech says he's going to do his best to get me taken care of - it pays to have friends in the dealership Other than that - I'm not 100% sure... Tech has heard and confirmed the noise / issue as being present when he rode with me - you can even feel it in the floor board, SM called me up and said nothing was wrong and had to come get it and give his loaner back - tech then said to ignore him and he would take care of it as well as gm would allow him to, Soooo...
    Yup it always pays to have someone on the inside of a dealer! It's better to have the tech on your side than a SM IMO, because the tech really has the final say of doing the job or not. SM's always want the money and hrs so if the tech says ill do it, it'll get done.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr.mike View Post
    OK. So :

    1. Stoic ratio for AFR = 14.5
    2. Lambda digit range 0.000 - 6.999
    3. AFR Digit range 8.0 - 99.99
    4. Analog output 0.5v = 0.5lambda 4.5v 0 4.500lambda ( makes tranform math REAL easy )
    5. needle LEDs maybe 12afr- 95afr (~ 0.8lambda - 6.5lambda )
    6. Serial data 0.0-99.9AFR
    7. Never goes " - - -"


    Would that do it ?
    Yup That's perfect! I'm really excited to get one, send it to you dr.mike and try it out! I'm also curious how the soot will affect accuracy over time but i do have some of those old heat sink bungs laying around. We'll see if that helps and I'll try to record some data on accuracy over time.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeek View Post
    Sorry for the newbie question, but does anyone know if these principles would transfer to an LML? My truck is 100% stock, just would like a little better mileage and better pedal response.
    What principles are you inquiring about?

  14. #54
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    OK.. I think I have the diesel patch worked out.

  15. #55
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    Better fuel economy = nox emissions more nox = more EGR and SCR

    More EGR = more soot
    More soot = more regens
    More regens = more fuel

    I might be wrong (haven't tried tuning a emissions diesel) but I don't think what your after is not possible. I think regulations/components on a ATD/SCR make both impossible. Maybe one or the other, but not both.