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Thread: F-150 5.0 e85 tuning.

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner =fast='s Avatar
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    F-150 5.0 e85 tuning.

    Guys my brother have a 2019 F-150 and would like to tune it see what can we do with it. I?m been tuning the LS/LT motors for the past years. I have check and mess around with the 5.0 mustangs back like 3/4 years even got the LRT school book. But since we get busy nerve had the time to put some time on it. Now we have this truck and would like to start tuning it.

    One of my questions it?s how much power they can handle on e85? I?ve seen they have the fuel control module, Will this hold some power down or fuel pressure can drop after certain power when going boost? GM cars/trucks have this. In that case we eliminate the Fuel control module and run a fuel regulator and intank pumps or inline pumps. Or leave alone the Fuel module and run an outside pump with a regulator and join with a Y fitting to the stock fuel line? Just wondering if deleting the fuel control module will give problems or not to see how can we run bigger pumps. Have more but this are the first one.

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    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    you will need to upgrade your injectors to 47lb at least to convert to E85 and not worry about the fuel pump if there is no power adder
    E-tuning/remote Tuning Sultan@mastuning.net Follow @MASTUNING Contact/Whatsapp +966555366161
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    Advanced Tuner =fast='s Avatar
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    Planing on going with a single turbo Mount, I’ve seen they sell 2 Pumps for intank, on3 sell them. Just don’t say nothing about the fuel module.
    How much boost this MAF sensor holds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    you will need to upgrade your injectors to 47lb at least to convert to E85 and not worry about the fuel pump if there is no power adder
    No you won't. Stock fuel system can support nearly 700 whp on pump gas. Remember these trucks have 16 injectors. PI/DI. They have tons of headroom in the fuel system.

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    I suggest you not try to jump into this project, and don't take offense, but you are WAYYYY in the deep end here.

    For starters, there is no MAF sensor on these trucks. They are speed density only, and there are 28 separate VE tables that will all need to be tuned. Plus 28 torque tables, 28 inverse torque tables, and 28 ignition timing tables. All of which can be pulled form at any given time, depending on cam positions and torque requests. Get it wrong, and if you're lucky it won't drive well enough to get out of it's on way and torque limiters will prevent you from doing any real damage. Try to force it, and get it wrong, and you'll make a pile of parts out of the fancy $7k transmission.

    If you are REALLY comfortable working on LT4 engines with automatic transmissions, and understand how the GM torque logic works, you MIGHT have a solid base to start messing with Ford's control logic. Even then you'd want to start with something a lot simpler, like a S197 Mustang with a 6R80 transmission. You need a good handle on how the HDFX system works, and how to calibrate the system to produce an accurate torque model. Without that, you'll never get it to run right, and you'll destroy the transmission quickly.

    A single turbo is not a great idea either, unless you are running a kit that has VERY minimal backpressure. The stock valve springs only have a bout 55 psi of seat pressure, and the exhaust valves will float on as little as 10 psi of backpressure. Even earlier if you don't time the exhaust valve closing point properly. You can go to a stiffer set of springs, up to about 95 psi, but be prepared to work on the VCT phasers control logic to accurately control the cams with the added seat pressure. Again, not a small task.

    I've been tuning specifically F150's for the last 6-7 years, and tune the fastest 11-19 truck in the world, and lots of other very fast trucks. 11-14 trucks are fairly simple, and similar to Mustangs, but anything 15+ is a much more advanced tuning process and you need to fully understand the control system to do it safely and successfully. This isn't a fuel/air/spark tune with these trucks, especially considering that Ford never intended them to make this sort of power. So there is very little in the base calibration, especially on the transmission side, that won't have to be addressed. It's definitely not a beginner level tune, in any shape or form.

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    ^^ that’s what I was thinking, the truck it’s e85 compatible so it should have some good fuel system.

    So will you find the same thing on SCT? 28 tables for timing, VE, torque tables??
    Do you do remote tune with HPtuners or email tunes? This guy will find I even told him we either found a tuner.
    Seen you, 5 star, Lund..

  7. #7
    ken (oz tuning) is the guy to talk to. hes really experienced on ford platform. Ive seen trucks tuned by him make some crazy power

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    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzTuning View Post
    I suggest you not try to jump into this project, and don't take offense, but you are WAYYYY in the deep end here.

    For starters, there is no MAF sensor on these trucks. They are speed density only, and there are 28 separate VE tables that will all need to be tuned. Plus 28 torque tables, 28 inverse torque tables, and 28 ignition timing tables. All of which can be pulled form at any given time, depending on cam positions and torque requests. Get it wrong, and if you're lucky it won't drive well enough to get out of it's on way and torque limiters will prevent you from doing any real damage. Try to force it, and get it wrong, and you'll make a pile of parts out of the fancy $7k transmission.

    If you are REALLY comfortable working on LT4 engines with automatic transmissions, and understand how the GM torque logic works, you MIGHT have a solid base to start messing with Ford's control logic. Even then you'd want to start with something a lot simpler, like a S197 Mustang with a 6R80 transmission. You need a good handle on how the HDFX system works, and how to calibrate the system to produce an accurate torque model. Without that, you'll never get it to run right, and you'll destroy the transmission quickly.

    A single turbo is not a great idea either, unless you are running a kit that has VERY minimal backpressure. The stock valve springs only have a bout 55 psi of seat pressure, and the exhaust valves will float on as little as 10 psi of backpressure. Even earlier if you don't time the exhaust valve closing point properly. You can go to a stiffer set of springs, up to about 95 psi, but be prepared to work on the VCT phasers control logic to accurately control the cams with the added seat pressure. Again, not a small task.

    I've been tuning specifically F150's for the last 6-7 years, and tune the fastest 11-19 truck in the world, and lots of other very fast trucks. 11-14 trucks are fairly simple, and similar to Mustangs, but anything 15+ is a much more advanced tuning process and you need to fully understand the control system to do it safely and successfully. This isn't a fuel/air/spark tune with these trucks, especially considering that Ford never intended them to make this sort of power. So there is very little in the base calibration, especially on the transmission side, that won't have to be addressed. It's definitely not a beginner level tune, in any shape or form.
    Wow this is one spooky post :O

    GM torque logic is for rookies LOL

    Tuning SD is actually very easy, much easier than playing with blow-trough in MAF system.

    A single turbo is a great idea,we did a few - no issues and makes good power but of course as everything has to be designed properly.

    Stock springs can take 8-10psi without having too much valve float issues, you just need one step stiffer springs to keep it stable at 14-20 psi without having any VCT problems.

    Not sure from where those horror stories are coming from...
    Last edited by veeefour; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:35 AM.

  9. #9
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    Veefour, yes GM it’s not that difficult.

    The difference here on the non MAF fords now, will be logging all this tables or will one table work and the rest will be the same?

    What about a bolt on truck will be the same or less dificulte to get the fuel correctly with timing?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by OzTuning View Post

    For starters, there is no MAF sensor on these trucks. They are speed density only, and there are 28 separate VE tables that will all need to be tuned. Plus 28 torque tables, 28 inverse torque tables, and 28 ignition timing tables. All of which can be pulled form at any given time, depending on cam positions and torque requests. Get it wrong, and if you're lucky it won't drive well enough to get out of it's on way and torque limiters will prevent you from doing any real damage. Try to force it, and get it wrong, and you'll make a pile of parts out of the fancy $7k transmission.

    $7k? Really? Direct from the dealer brand new at full MSRP? Oh wait, no... they only charge $4569.13. Whats your end game here? Just to scare people looks like.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by =fast= View Post
    Veefour, yes GM it’s not that difficult.

    The difference here on the non MAF fords now, will be logging all this tables or will one table work and the rest will be the same?

    What about a bolt on truck will be the same or less dificulte to get the fuel correctly with timing?
    SD system has some wiggle room.

  12. #12
    Single turbo works great and Tuning Ford's SD system is very easy. OZ dude is trying to make it sound alot harder then it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostedYote View Post
    Single turbo works great and Tuning Ford's SD system is very easy. OZ dude is trying to make it sound alot harder then it is.
    I’ve download a file of a 2017 mustang just to check the VE tables, I think it was the right one that I was looking at, look like the MAF table of the 2015’s mustangs with MAF. Straight table with breaking points??

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    Quote Originally Posted by =fast= View Post
    ^^ that?s what I was thinking, the truck it?s e85 compatible so it should have some good fuel system.

    So will you find the same thing on SCT? 28 tables for timing, VE, torque tables??
    Do you do remote tune with HPtuners or email tunes? This guy will find I even told him we either found a tuner.
    Seen you, 5 star, Lund..
    Yes, we remote tune all over the world. We can help you plan the build and tune it. We've done the same for hundreds of other customers. It's what we specialize in.

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    My guess is that most of the guys replying here have never tuned one of these trucks, and especially not to four digit power levels. The speed density system is not that simple to tune. Sure, it can be hacked, like most LS tuners do, but to do it right takes time, lots of logging, and a full understanding of the control system. Everything is interconnected, and much more so on a control system that doesn't use a MAF sensor. I can almost guarantee that none of them have reached the point where the speed density calculator stops "working" and no longer corrects your airflow model based on trim data, nor how to get around that hurdle. I'm sure most of them have never needed to use a 4 Bar MAP sensor on one of these trucks, nor do they know how to set it up. Those that say something is "easy" are usually not doing things properly.

    I'm not trying to scare anyone. I'm giving feedback based on LOTS of experience with this control system. I encourage anyone to learn, but there are much smarter ways to learn. I'm not going to encourage you to toss on some floatees and go jump into a shark infested ocean, that's not how you learn how to swim.

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzTuning View Post
    My guess is that most of the guys replying here have never tuned one of these trucks. The speed density system is not that simple to tune.
    Good for you that you used the magic word "most".

    Yes, it is that easy. Not going to change my mind.

    Common, even recently we did a turbo system in S550 V6 which is MAP not MAF - MAP sensor data is there, 1,2 4 bar you name it.
    And I can assure you things were done properly. How does it differ from tuning 3.5 EB? No difference in my book.

    You must be the champion of the world we are not aware of or you were living in the cave for past 5 years.

    I feel offended by your statement...
    Last edited by veeefour; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    Good for you that you used the magic word "most".

    Yes, it is that easy. Not going to change my mind.

    Common, even recently we did a turbo system in S550 V6 which is MAP not MAF - MAP sensor data is there, 1,2 4 bar you name it.
    And I can assure you things were done properly. How does it differ from tuning 3.5 EB? No difference in my book.

    You must be the champion of the world we are not aware of or you were living in the cave for past 5 years.

    I feel offended by your statement...
    I'm not trying to offend anyone. The original poster obviously does not have much experience, and has zero experience with this platform. I gave him the truth, not sugar-coated half truths. If you think it's easy, great, but you likely have a lot more experience than he does. I can promise you it won't be easy for him.

    Champion of the world.... nope, but I can probably guarantee I've personally tuned more 5.0 F150's than anyone else in the world at this point, nearly 5000 in the last three years. I also happen to tune the fastest 5.0 F150 in the world. That's not bragging, I just have a lot of experience with this control system. It's what I specialize in. Am I an expert in everything? Definitely not. There are lots of platforms that I don't tune and have very little firsthand knowledge with. And as such, I would not make any sort of comment regarding those platforms. I'm not one to speak about things that I don't have any firsthand knowledge about.

    Tuning 5.0 F150's is very different than Ecoboost F150's, and also different from S550 3.7. Ecoboost cals are setup for boost, 5.0's are not. 3.7 Mustang calibrations are built with at least some thought towards performance. F150 calibrations are not. Many of the Mapped Points, especially in 18+ F150's are only half calibrated. It seems Ford only saw fit to calibrate the areas that can be seen in normal use, on the stock calibration. So mapped points that use IMRC's, are typically only cal'd well in the range where IMRC's are closed. Mapped Points that reference open IMRC's, are only cal'd well in the range where the IMRC is open. This is just one example, but there are dozens and dozens of other points in 5.0 F150 cal that are not designed for best performance. So, you have much less of a "base" to start with, especially when adding boost. Essentially you are completely redesigning the control logic to do something it was never intended to do, in a vehicle that was never intended to perform in this manner.

    Is it impossible, no, definitely not. Is it something any "tooner" can jump in and do... not likely. If it were... I would have a lot less "mustang" shops that contact me and ask me to tune a truck they've built in-house, because their tuner can't figure it out. It's definitely not the same as tuning a Mustang... not even close.

    If I offended anyone, my apologies, not my intentions. I was only trying to prevent the OP from jumping into something that was likely way over his head.

  18. #18
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    Relax m8, I was joking. But remember there are few smart guys around here please don't put everyone in the same bag.

  19. #19
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    Well yea I was searching around, didt know this ones are SD mode.
    I’m pretty sure the scanner have to set up To log the afr error?? Just don’t get the 28 tables of timing/VE/Torque.

  20. #20
    Lund has the fastest 18+ truck