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Thread: EEC-V any updates of tunability

  1. #21
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    hey mach, just an update (and for whoever else is reading), just updated to Beta 4.5.117, and found the data freezes a little less, but there are times where the channel data does not match the graph data, which is not good. but having said that, it sounds like you are definitely having some setup issues, not to say the Editor or scanner is 100% perfect, but there are some MAJOR differences when comparing ford (especially eec-v) tuning to GM tuning. there can be alot of variables with what you see going on with the data and what is actually going on. hopefully you know the difference between your commanded Lambda (AFR in base table "in open loop") and Lambse (commanded equivalency ratio) in the scanner. when you are lean, Lambse (mistaken for STFT) will actually command a rich value to try and get your fueling back to what your commanded LAMBDA wants to be, but that isnt your commanded Lambda. its the ecm commanding a value to get you back on track (in layman's terms). it directly correlates to the percentage that your fueling is off compared to your desired Lambda value. thats why having a wide band is so usefull (when you can log it). now when you reved it and it got rich, that depends on what your desired Lambda value is, at that Load (PER-LOAD).it may be something completely different when the engine is loaded. Hopefully im not confusing you or offending you, but if you are coming from a GM background (as do i), it may be helpful to read about the EEC-V strategy. Its actually beautifully simple in a way. similar to Holley EFi if you like to tune in Lambda scales. if i were you, id disable all my closed loop parameters and set all my closed loop requirements low so you are always in closed loop, and set your base table to 1.0/Stoich (14.64:1 or even 14.08:1"true stoich on fuels with e15) then drive it and recheck your MAF transfer to STFT. still not sure what your mods are (boosted, cam, headers,e85,etc) but with 80lb injectors im sure its something worth the need. if you can check your wideband vs that, you may find what the issue is be it injector data or maf transfer. also, with injectors that large, your idle can become pretty unstable if the correct pulse width value isnt used. there is not alot of good info out there on these PCM;s, but if you hav the time, check out (efidynotuning.com) alot of good info on the ford strategy. and if im not mistaken, i believe the 99-02 EEC-V has a ceiling for the injector slop data at around 54LBS. you will have to make up for it in MAF hardware/ tuning. 03/04 EEC-V have a limit of 60lbs. the PCM cannot process any data above that.
    Last edited by Go4Broke; 12-31-2019 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #22
    thanks man. yeah i, pretty up to speed on all that. theres just somethiing wrong in this injector offset data or something . i updated everything today, and got the scanner all back and working.and all the pids look like theyre back. the update even changed all the injector offsets in every tune i have for eecv. still runs like crap. only STFT went from +30 at a lean pegged wideband to +100STFT still at a pegged lean wideband. same injector data on a sct tune on same year car and same supporting mods runs perfect in every way. use all that through HPT on my car and its complete garbage. car has 80lb dekas btw, slot maf, and procharger. return fuel. both cars do . about to give up. makes zero sense

  3. #23
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    Dam, yeah that?s frustrating. I can definitely say that there are differences between the SCT software and the HPT software. I?ve noticed that HPT has different literature/ description for certain settings that are not the same as SCT. So setting them to values that would be the SCT version, don?t really take effect the same way. I think the best we can do right now is keep the concerns and conversations going so Chris and and the guys can get it worked out. I still think you need to keep the injector high and low slopes within the tolerances the EEC-V can process. I know it shows a max lb/hr of 112, but that doesn?t mean it can process that data effectively. Have you tried swapping the PCM with the car that works? Can you turn off PATs and try?

  4. #24
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    * and before you try that, try to just lower the injector slopes to 53-54 and see if that fattens things up. Then try to scale the MAF from there

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
    Dam, yeah that?s frustrating. I can definitely say that there are differences between the SCT software and the HPT software. I?ve noticed that HPT has different literature/ description for certain settings that are not the same as SCT. So setting them to values that would be the SCT version, don?t really take effect the same way. I think the best we can do right now is keep the concerns and conversations going so Chris and and the guys can get it worked out. I still think you need to keep the injector high and low slopes within the tolerances the EEC-V can process. I know it shows a max lb/hr of 112, but that doesn?t mean it can process that data effectively. Have you tried swapping the PCM with the car that works? Can you turn off PATs and try?
    ive been over the values 100 times. nothing is off there. my high and low slopes are good. everything is scaled accordingly. as is the other tune on the other car. they are identically scaled actually. im not gonna swap the pcm ,cause its not my car. my pcm worked fine on the old tune before i decided to buy this software. it hasnt moved since. i dont know what pats would have to do with it either. the car runs. it just runs like garbage lol

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
    * and before you try that, try to just lower the injector slopes to 53-54 and see if that fattens things up. Then try to scale the MAF from there
    are you in HPT on that? those numbers dont sound like any injector slope numbers i have

  7. #27
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    In HPT yes. I keep saying slope, but I?m talking about flow rate Low and High, as well as breakpoint. These are technically your slope. And your low is generally larger than your high by about 15%.

  8. #28
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    I only say disable PATs because swapping the other vehicles ecu into your car can/will trigger a no start unless the cluster and ecm are paired up....Unless any of This applies anyway. I never really asked what car this was In lol. My bad.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
    In HPT yes. I keep saying slope, but I?m talking about flow rate Low and High, as well as breakpoint. These are technically your slope. And your low is generally larger than your high by about 15%.
    maybe you are in lb/hr. mine are in lb/sec and are like this 0.014091492. but that in lb/hr is 50 as it is. 99-04 mustang

  10. #30
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    Gotcha. Well yeah, that?s about where you?d wanna be with that large of an injector. And woth a newer slot MAF you should have enough room to scale properly. What size tube is it in? Just out of curiosity. And is it set up for draw through or blow through? I?m thinking of going with a slotted MAF in the 3.5? inlet. I have a lightning 80mm MAF in a 3? charge pipe right now. It gets close to pegging as it is

  11. #31
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    Obviously not doing it till these bugs are worked out.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
    Obviously not doing it till these bugs are worked out.
    3.5 tube with a slot maf. blow through. real nice setup. cant use it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
    Obviously not doing it till these bugs are worked out.
    check your messages

  14. #34
    i dont know exactly what did it, but after reloading again, it runs. and i have control now it seems after touching up the maf a couple times. now that i know that,the scanner is still not close to right yet. still blocks of 2 or 3 seconds that work between freezes. and i cant find any channels to log TP that are in ad counts. nor can i find a afr error channel to save my life
    Last edited by mach; 01-04-2020 at 09:40 PM.

  15. #35
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    Mach, just saw your post. I forgot to PM you this yesterday. But, I finally got my car driving under boost yesterday. Didn?t make a lot of huge changes except putting all timing tables back to stock, and running CL up to about 225 throttle A/D counts (not available in channels list unfortunately, I just watch TPS % and try to covert in my head). It gave me some idle stability with fueling to get the MAF table under control around idle. I absolutely had to use the wideband for this. But this wasn?t possible till the latest update. Atleast for me. Trying to use the narrows to get this thing happy (even at stoich, was way to inconsistent. And I did replace my wideband which may or may not of been an issue, but whatever, now I know it?s good. I Made a really simple EQ error math Graph with MAF A/D counts as the Row axis (same as the editor, mke sure you copy the values from the editor exactly) this is no different with any vehicle you tune. the Only commanded EQ channels available are bank 1 bank 2 specific, make sure they are added in the channels list. the scanner was able to average them both properly and get me some solid numbers this time. Mach, unfortunately, we can't use AFR error on these. You have to select the EQ error math in the graph, and select the EQ version of your wideband under transform menu.this is done in the channels list. just right click your wide band in the channels list, select transform, then select Equivalence ratio under Oxygen sensors. A list of supported widebands pops up, select yours, and it will automatically convert your reading to Lambda. (im using MPVI2 pro link, A/D input 2 "blue wire". after that, your car and Wideband will both read in Lambda. atleast on the scanner. This is where I left off weeks ago before the scanner began freezing up and giving me bad data. Your wideband gauge will still read AFR scale which is nice to look at, but you will need that EQ data for tuning. I can definitely say everything seams to be working properly now. Scanner still glitches and freezes if you use it for long periods of time. So you gotta make sure the car is warmed up before logging. I know this is difficult for some ppl. But at the bare minimum try and park it indoors so your cold starts aren't so bad. and yes, my car would stall on restart because it was too rich. change your cold start and start up fuel enleanment tables to 1.0 around those areas. The timing tables are still not responding to scaling. It causes some pretty wierd issues. However, those of you guys running boost up to about 8lbs should be fine in stock tables. I max out at about 15 degrees at 0.9 Load and full boost, over 0.9 Load i get about 13*. im happy with that, its more than safe for 91 octane pump gas. Haven't touched knock sensors or VID block setting either.
    Last edited by Go4Broke; 01-05-2020 at 02:26 PM.

  16. #36
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    Attachment 95642Attachment 95643Screenshot (9).pngScreenshot (10).jpg
    Here are some screenshots of my scanner with EQ error graph, my wideband set up, and its location. there is a little lag when in the 2nd position, but i like keeping the position 1 narrows in for feedback in closed loop.
    hope this thread helped anyone in similar situations, thanks to Chris and all the guys an HPT for working hard to provide an awesome tuning platform. My fingers are crossed that the scanner will become stable after a few more updates....and just FYI, my car has a "street legal" "C.A.R.B." approved bolt on pro-charger kit. i live in California, and when we originally had this car tuned (10+ years ago), it would pass smog. for guys in similar situations, you know that the new B.A.R. I.O.S system will not pass these cars, as most of the monitors were disabled. these new smog machines will compare your PCM profile to all others in California, and if any monitors are disabled, then that's an immediate fail. this car now runs, makes power, and has all emissions monitors enabled. last monitor to run is the cat converters. but now we can enjoy the ride while it does. My hat is off to HPT. thank you.
    Last edited by Go4Broke; 01-05-2020 at 03:01 PM.

  17. #37

  18. #38
    if i can ever keep my pids and this ends up working like a gm, i can say i will halfway like this thing....

  19. #39
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    Just an update, since yesterday they came out with another beta update. I downloaded this morning and drove to work. My MAF and commanded EQ PIDs did disappear at first, so I cleared them, reloaded/repoled them ( using my saved channels list). Shut the scanner and car down, unplugged mpvi from car and PC for about 30 seconds and plugged back in. Performed a resync, then tried again. All Pids came up and it logged longer than it ever has. Got about 20mins out of it before it froze. There were several little glitch points but it was a lot better.

  20. #40
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    I?m Noticing about 10:1 AFR on decel (5speed M/T) no matter what I set OL decel load, or Decel cutoff too, I still get an incredibly rich decel. Anyone having the same issues? MAF is pretty dialed in at this point. Just turning everything back on. Not sure if I?m missing a setting or not. I have the OL decel mode set to 0.00 which is stock ( if load is below that it will enter open loop on decel) which I don?t want, and the cutoff load cancel value is set slightly higher at 0.20 (stock is 0.16), because the S/C adds a little extra load) and it still won?t cut injectors. Any ideas? I still see It entering closed loop on Decel 😑.