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Thread: Stock File for a 2005

  1. #1

    Stock File for a 2005

    Is there a way to get a genuine stock file for a 2005?

    I have a smarty that I could use to do this but an concerned about potential issues going back to HPT. I'd prefer to find a stock tune I can download with HPT.

    Why go back to stock? To remind myself how far the current tune has come and do some A-B-A testing with it.

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Just do a ?read? of the ecm. HPT will generate a stock file for your MY and calibration. It?s the only way to get a stock file for your MY with HPT.

  3. #3
    Thats not a stock file... its a base file. I pulled it when I first got started and there is no way its a production stock file... too much is left in a "safe" state with a lot of limiters in place (no max fueling). If it was mostly a duplicate of the stock file it would probably be fine for my purposes though.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Stock, base, same thing whatever you want to call it. It has exactly the same values for all parameters that Chrysler would flash. There is zero difference between the file HPT generates for your MY and a Chrysler scan tool flash file for your MY until you apply HPT?s code for extended PID?s, and at that moment then there would be a difference between the two. HPT uses Chrysler files to generate your tune file as the CM848 in your MY cannot actually be readout without a J1939 communication and Cummins software and the exact Cummins files for your ECM. Sorry to tell you, what HPT generates for you IS a production stock file.

  5. #5
    Alrighty then... I will load it up and give it a go.

    So just to clarify it for me... in my file there is no IAT timing correction, that is how it came from the factory? My correction multiplier is 0 end to end. Boost correction is set to -10 in call cells, barro -15. In my current tune, IAT correction is 1* & the multiplier is < 1. The base file was a train wreck... it ran sure but from what I recall, it sucked worse than the smarty stock file.

    Like I mentioned, I have a smarty recovery file I can dump back in there and I still have the smarty that I can vin-lock & return to stock. And now that I think of it, I should be able to dump in all 3 tunes and do the test run i do using the CC, back to back to back. They should all give the same results

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    There is legit zero difference between HPT?s stock generates file, stock from a smarty, stock from Cummins software files, stock from Chrysler flash files as far as parameters go and the coding for the multitude of control algorithms. What you see in the ?readout? from HPT is exactly the same as you you see in UDC Pro, is exactly what you see in Chrysler?s flash file, is exactly what you see in Cummins files. Those main timing correction tables to nothing unless the end result from one of those correction tables is greater than what is set in the air density select table that the ECM would otherwise be running, 99% of the time it?s the high air density table. All Dodge Cummins Common Rails are this way, it is how they are all configured to operate in the ECM.

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Pilot timing correction table based on coolant temperature is very easy to see when it kicks in and out of operating, switching to coolant correction table values at low temperatures and switch to regular air density table once the coolant reaches a certain threshold when running a stock tune. The correction tables don?t blend with the air density tables whatsoever.

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    I suppose there could be a possibility that HPT is using an older calibration that it generated for your ECM. Smarty always uses the latest released by Chrysler. The calibrations are easy to check if it?s given you an older calibration.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Pilot timing correction table based on coolant temperature is very easy to see when it kicks in and out of operating, switching to coolant correction table values at low temperatures and switch to regular air density table once the coolant reaches a certain threshold when running a stock tune. The correction tables don?t blend with the air density tables whatsoever.
    I cant see pilot timing at all... There is no data for it, there is a channel but it comes up empty

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    I suppose there could be a possibility that HPT is using an older calibration that it generated for your ECM. Smarty always uses the latest released by Chrysler. The calibrations are easy to check if it?s given you an older calibration.
    the only way for me to check is to run the test route I mentioned. the data for each run should be very similar once the motor is back up to temp & in a steady state

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    I doubt there?s much difference in parameter values between calibration versions at all, most changes between versions are in the coding itself, like at one point they added the HPCR leak detection, at another point added manual second lockup control. A very large chunk of parameter values are the same from 04.5 through to 2007. Major difference between 04.5-05 and 2006-2007 lies in the transmission, the latter has a bunch more exhaust brake/transmission control parameters for lockup.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    There is legit zero difference between HPT?s stock generates file, stock from a smarty, stock from Cummins software files, stock from Chrysler flash files as far as parameters go and the coding for the multitude of control algorithms. What you see in the ?readout? from HPT is exactly the same as you you see in UDC Pro, is exactly what you see in Chrysler?s flash file, is exactly what you see in Cummins files. Those main timing correction tables to nothing unless the end result from one of those correction tables is greater than what is set in the air density select table that the ECM would otherwise be running, 99% of the time it?s the high air density table. All Dodge Cummins Common Rails are this way, it is how they are all configured to operate in the ECM.
    I dont see that... I have my IAT correction at -1*, timing tables are advanced beyond what it would be for zero correction. The multiplier * the correction pulls it in where it needs to be. Spent a lot of time getting this dialed in from ~45*f thru 120*F.

    According to the log file my motor spends more time in transient state than the high air density state. And, no proof but I believe it is blending the 2 tables. I recall testing this a couple of years back with the timing tables and the rail pressure tables. Not sure why it would do this but that was my observation & conclusion.

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Take it for what you want but the main timing table selection is set at factory to what is called ?max wins?. This means that the ecm looks at the desired air density table it determines to run in and compares it to all the correction tables and chooses whichever gives the highest timing value. It does not blend between air density table and correction table, it does not blend between correction table and correction table. You can however make it blend between air density tables. Very easy to prove in datalogging, or locate yourself Cummins software and files for your truck and look yourself. I spend almost 100hrs a week inside these calibrations, their parameters and how they work on the common rails and how everything interacts with each other, right from 2003-2020. If you want to blend between correction tables and only run off the correction tables to be purely based off coolant temperature and air temperature it requires changing the configuration in the ECM, it?s really as simple as that. There is a lot in these ECM?s that don?t operate the way one would assume it would.

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Here is a list of the different timing adjustment states:

    Boost, air pressure, air temperature, coolant temperature, HPCR increment, combustion limiting increment.

    List of different timing states:
    Four D, Wet Stack, User Command, ANC, Max, Crank, Engine Brake, User Override, Stop, Overspeed, Shutdown, Misfire, Misfire Override, Wait to Start Coolant Temperature, Coolant Temperature SOI, Intake Manifold temperature SOI, Ambient Temperature SOI, Sum, Combustion Manager, Air Temperature, Coolant Temperature, Ambient Pressure, Boost, Extended Idle, Coolant Temperature Derate, Combustion Reference SOI, Exhaust Brake, Max Timing, Min Timing, Combustion Gear Ratio Max, Combustion Gear Ratio Min, Fuel Pressure.

    There are 3 configuration options to the main event, add coolant and intake advance, max wins and min wins. By default it is set at max wins. Just how it is unless the configuration is changed to one of the other 2 configurations.

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    A simple test. Set all main timing correction tables and their multipliers to zero except for coolant, set that to 4 degrees across the board with a multiplier of 1 across the board, safe numbers and set your main air density timing tables to 2. Will it give a blend between 2 and 4? No. It?s going to be 4 degrees or within a few 0.01?s of a degree of 4 degrees. Set the main timing air density tables to -8 and see if it affected anything, most likely it?ll still be the same pretty much right on 4 degrees.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Here is a list of the different timing adjustment states:

    Boost, air pressure, air temperature, coolant temperature, HPCR increment, combustion limiting increment.

    List of different timing states:
    Four D, Wet Stack, User Command, ANC, Max, Crank, Engine Brake, User Override, Stop, Overspeed, Shutdown, Misfire, Misfire Override, Wait to Start Coolant Temperature, Coolant Temperature SOI, Intake Manifold temperature SOI, Ambient Temperature SOI, Sum, Combustion Manager, Air Temperature, Coolant Temperature, Ambient Pressure, Boost, Extended Idle, Coolant Temperature Derate, Combustion Reference SOI, Exhaust Brake, Max Timing, Min Timing, Combustion Gear Ratio Max, Combustion Gear Ratio Min, Fuel Pressure.

    There are 3 configuration options to the main event, add coolant and intake advance, max wins and min wins. By default it is set at max wins. Just how it is unless the configuration is changed to one of the other 2 configurations.
    Combustion limit = misfire correction? hpcr, I do not see that one...

    timing corrections I see in the log file are coolant, cranking and combustion

    Engine running state always = invalid

    master fuel correction reason = normal or boost pf (in the past)

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Just telling you what is actually in these ECM?s. Whether you have logged any of those are not doesn?t remove that?s what?s in these ECM?s. If HPT was kind enough to allow logging pilot timing you would easily see the state for pilot timing switch between coolant correction table and the normal air density table so long as those tables haven?t been messed with, not blending them but switching between them as it doesn?t blend the correction tables into the air density tables.

  18. #18
    what is the meaning behind the steady state/transient log entry? I have seen it at 0 & 1.6.

    I which I had access to pilot timing!

  19. #19
    Tuner in Training
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    I can log pilot timing , pulse width, fuel rate and correction reasons . Not sure why you can’t .

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spooled05 View Post
    I can log pilot timing , pulse width, fuel rate and correction reasons . Not sure why you can?t .
    that is odd then. Do you know what version of HPT you generated your base file with? (currently using 3.7 & pulled my base file with 3.4(?))