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Thread: NAG1/A580 Part Throttle Shift Scheduling Table Tuning

  1. #81
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    Update: HP Tuners has correct the tables/indexes and released the changes as beta software. I did a quick eyeball of the tables and they look correct now.

    For reference I have 4.11.693 beta so that version and newer should be good to go.

    I hope this helps people who were struggling to get the shift schedules to work correctly. I have not road tested yet so cannot comment.

  2. #82
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    any idea of when it will be available?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  3. #83
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    My guess from the previous post that said it is available now, 1 week ago

  4. #84
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    well the reason i asked is because i checked for an update and it came back with no new updates? is there somewhere else i should look for this beta? is it available for you?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo2gnx View Post
    well the reason i asked is because i checked for an update and it came back with no new updates? is there somewhere else i should look for this beta? is it available for you?
    If you're using the stable version of HP Tuners as opposed to a previous version of the Beta, then you're not going to see the beta update in the "About" tab of the software.

    Instead, you'll need to go to HP Tuners download page of their website to download the beta software. Once you are using the beta software, you can then get the most updated beta version in the "About" tab of the beta software.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstevens View Post
    Update: HP Tuners has correct the tables/indexes and released the changes as beta software. I did a quick eyeball of the tables and they look correct now.

    For reference I have 4.11.693 beta so that version and newer should be good to go.

    I hope this helps people who were struggling to get the shift schedules to work correctly. I have not road tested yet so cannot comment.
    Awesome news! Hopefully I'll get a chance to check it all out soon.
    Keep us posted with any updates

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstevens View Post
    Update: HP Tuners has correct the tables/indexes and released the changes as beta software. I did a quick eyeball of the tables and they look correct now.
    So I downloaded the latest 4.11.724 Beta and opened up my stock 2013 JK Wrangler tune to see absolutely no change between it and earlier Betas <4.9.1269
    All the part throttle shift schedule tables have exactly the same pedal position breakpoints and shift speed RPMs.
    All the TC apply/release tables have exactly the same pedal position breakpoints and apply/release RPMs.

    4.9.1269 Beta
    TransShiftConvertor 4.9.1269 Beta.jpg

    4.11.724 Beta
    TransShiftConvertor 4.11.724 Beta.jpg

    Ill try doing a reread on the latest Beta and see what happens
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #88
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    I believe that you need to do a re-read.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by xennex View Post
    I believe that you need to do a re-read.
    I just updated to Beta 4.11.727 and did a reread. Still no change on any breakpoints or shift speeds

    Xennex did you have any luck with the latest Beta? IF so could you please take a screen shot of the tables HPT fixed?

    Thanks!

  10. #90
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    cool bean boostjunky! i thank you for that info!
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  11. #91
    Just updated to Beta 4.11.727 and did re-read for my JK 2014

    cant see any difference also

    Am i missing something ?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by xennex View Post
    A word of caution: there is another thread where someone has posted a 2014 Wrangler file and those indexes match my corrected indexes. So it could only be some model years that are wrong.
    I ended up combing through all the various tune files I have accumulated over the years are started comparing indexes. Interestingly I came across a 2016 JK with a ESG53 OS of 68293700AA. This one seemed to have the correct indexes.
    I was wondering what the OS was of the 2014 Wrangler file that you came across with the correct indexes?
    All the other files I have with OS's ending in AD to AF all seem to have the wrong indexes.

    I've attached the tune file for reference.
    2016 JK Eforce SC.hpt

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by xennex View Post
    Yes, enter 0.6 x the actual value for the TCC apply and release to get the rpm you want. I'm assuming that everyone is using a spreadsheet to alter the values anyhow, so I have an extra row which is the value to plug back into HPTuners.

    A word of caution: there is another thread where someone has posted a 2014 Wrangler file and those indexes match my corrected indexes. So it could only be some model years that are wrong.
    I have a 2014 Wrangler, would like to compare mine to mentioned post before changing anything
    could you share a link for the thread ?
    i tried to search but didn't find it

    thx

  14. #94
    is this issue resolved now, with latest beta if i do re-read still i see no changes
    I understood indexes for up/down shift and TCC is wrong also values for 1st and 2nd in TCC are wrong
    changing those indexes and values fixed the issue ?

    much appreciated

  15. #95
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    @HPTEngineers, it would be awesome if you guys could look into the NAG1 progamming logic and let us know why all of our JK transmissions have the shift delay/hanging issue in the 2-3 and 3-4 upshift when going uphill.
    There a re a couple of companies out there, RPM Extreme and OST Dyno claiming they can cure the issue if we send them our TCM's.
    for example from RPM Extreme website:

    Product Description

    This TCM upgrade is for 2012 and newer Jeep Wrangler JK with an automatic 5 speed transmission (WA580 - NAG1).

    Its a know issue that if you run larger tires and gears or a supercharger the transmission just wont shift when its supposed to.

    usually 3rd and 4th gear hang way too long and the dang thing downshifts at every slight hill causing you to rocket up at redline.

    We have the fix. This custom programmed TCM will correct all your issues.

    We rework the auto shift speeds and get it back in line with how it should be

    We rework the wide open upshift tables to maximize performance at WOT

    We turn Auto Stick on and rework the Auto stick downshift tables for a nice aggressive feel

    Shift pressures are adjusted for a better feel

    Torque converter apply and release tables are tailored to the new shift schedule

    Torque limits are increased to allow the engine to provide a little more torque

    Rpm limits are increased to keep you out of TCM limp mode

    We offer this upgrade two ways.

    SEND IN: Send us your stock TCM and we will flash it and send it back to you ready to go.

    EXCHANGE: Purchase a flashed TCM from us. After you have it installed send us your original TCM and we will refund the CORE charge ($250) back to your credit card. ( core must be in good working condition and from your vehicle )


    So If they can do it, we should too since we have access to the TCM

    Come on guys, HPtuners is the leading tunning platform in the entire world, help us out here.

  16. #96
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    As Haasexp have indicated from his tests, how is the upshift /downshift speed offset referenced in the shift calculations ? We can log the PID but we don't seem to have a way to control whatever parameters there are that are building up the value. From my tests that value changes if the road has incline or declines. On declines the offset is zero, on flat roads the value is increased, and on inclines it seems to go even higher. The aggression blend remains at 0% so the driving factor is not increasing that upshift speed offset, at least for the tests i've conducted
    The shift scheduling tables only have values for what it seem the 3 TCC patterns: normal, sport and winter, and all 3 patterns are based on trans output shift rpm vs acceleration pedal position. how can we tune for the condition that causes the upshift shift offset to increase when going uphill ?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #97
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    I think this is the most comprenhesive NAG1 document i've found so far. 3 group of clutches control the 1-2/4-5, 2-3 and 3-4 shift.
    I can't upload the file to HPT so i'll direct it to download the file from this link
    https://www.challengertalk.com/attac...11-pdf.993994/
    Last edited by bluegoat06; 05-21-2022 at 02:39 PM.

  18. #98
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    I have an 06 Jeep SRT8 with the EGS52 TCM and have these exact issues. I am primarily focused on trying to get consistent WOT shifting.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegoat06 View Post
    @HPTEngineers, it would be awesome if you guys could look into the NAG1 progamming logic and let us know why all of our JK transmissions have the shift delay/hanging issue in the 2-3 and 3-4 upshift when going uphill.
    There a re a couple of companies out there, RPM Extreme and OST Dyno claiming they can cure the issue if we send them our TCM's.
    for example from RPM Extreme website:

    Product Description

    This TCM upgrade is for 2012 and newer Jeep Wrangler JK with an automatic 5 speed transmission (WA580 - NAG1).

    Its a know issue that if you run larger tires and gears or a supercharger the transmission just wont shift when its supposed to.

    usually 3rd and 4th gear hang way too long and the dang thing downshifts at every slight hill causing you to rocket up at redline.

    We have the fix. This custom programmed TCM will correct all your issues.

    We rework the auto shift speeds and get it back in line with how it should be

    We rework the wide open upshift tables to maximize performance at WOT

    We turn Auto Stick on and rework the Auto stick downshift tables for a nice aggressive feel

    Shift pressures are adjusted for a better feel

    Torque converter apply and release tables are tailored to the new shift schedule

    Torque limits are increased to allow the engine to provide a little more torque

    Rpm limits are increased to keep you out of TCM limp mode

    We offer this upgrade two ways.

    SEND IN: Send us your stock TCM and we will flash it and send it back to you ready to go.

    EXCHANGE: Purchase a flashed TCM from us. After you have it installed send us your original TCM and we will refund the CORE charge ($250) back to your credit card. ( core must be in good working condition and from your vehicle )


    So If they can do it, we should too since we have access to the TCM

    Come on guys, HPtuners is the leading tunning platform in the entire world, help us out here.
    Why would they bother? The TCM is free on the NAG1 stuff and you already paid for the credits.
    If in doubt, multiply everything by 1.1.

  20. #100
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    what other tuning program can we use to tune these hemi's other than hptuners? im reading that others saying that hptuners have too many incorrect data and not interested in fixing them. would like another system to try seeing how cant get hptuners to help out.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.