Camaro 5.3 Turbo

[CarlLS]

Hey everyone, Hoping this community can help. I've read a ton and think i'm at a decent point but need some help getting to the next step.
The car is a 98 Camaro, but a 5.3 is installed. Its an aluminum block, 24X Crank Sensor. I believe its an LH6.

I've built the setup for forced induction:
T76 turbo, 80lb TRE Injectors (similar to the siemen dekas, I understand these might be bad Chinese crap), Bosch 044 fuel pump, Aeromotive regulator (about 43-45PSI) , 3 Bar MAP sensor (From EFI source, again maybe Chinese crap). Have upgraded the
OS in hp tuners for the 3 BAR. no O2 sensors after the Cat, there is no Cat.
I also have an AEM wide band sensor that I plan to soon wire to collect data, but for now I have the gauge. At cranking/rough idle its reading close to 14.7, sometimes going up to ~16-20 intermittently. I'm not able to get it to read super rich though.

I've copied a lot of information over from other tunes including what I think is a decent starting point for the injector data. I've copied something close to the Dekas since the TRE don't have information. My last change was altering the MAP calibration a bit. At startup it was just pegged at 105 KPa vs showing some vacuum while cranking, It will now perform that but read close to 103 KPa at ambient pressure. I've also disabled VATS.

I'm having a hard time starting the car. The car will crank and try to idle but it dies. I'm not sure if the issue is in the cranking procedure or when its switching to run (happens right around 350-400 RPMs). I've tried to start adjusting the parameters on the Transient table but i've gotten past my current level of knowledge, or is there other items I should be checking.

Would anyone mind taking a look? Or is there anything I could check? This has been a great learning experience. Thank you in Advance!

ATTACH]96342[/ATTACH]

[ryan_axberg]

to start out with your EQ ratio is a multiplier of your stoich value. So if you have in your open loop eq ratio is all over the place that will throw you off to start with. From like the 158 degrees on up coolant temp you should make those all a value of 1, so it doesn't screw you up going forward. That would command your stoich reading of 14.63 that you have set up. That is if other tables aren't also changing it. Also you have your injector flow rate table set up as if it was a returnless fuel system. The values should be the same if it is a vaccum referenced regulator, which is how it should be for a boosted engine. Your eq ratio in power enrichment could be somewhere around the 1.18 area and your boost enrichment should be commanding richer than that, you have it commanding stoich, which isn't safe. You also have wayy to much timing in it when you would get into boost, 27 is fine for a na motor but not boosted.

[CarlLS]

Ok thank you for the replies! It was on my list to adjust for a return fuel system with a vacuum line to adjust based on pressure. I found this thread on it, sucks the pictures aren't available anymore, but i'll figure it out: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...rn-fuel-system

Could I do an EQ rate of 1 but lower my default from 14.7 to be safe?

For the EQ table in power enrichment I had it at 1.15 and then 1.27 (~11.5) at 3,000 RPMs, would that not be enough?

Thanks for the timing too, i'll adjust.

It seems like there's something else impacting cranking/idle functions? I did notice during cranking it was commanding an A/F ratio of 5 at times, it would almost bounce between 5 and 12 I think.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

always set your stoich afr to the fuel you run. follow the previous comment in regards to open loop table and injector setting correction.

then for the PE side target 1.176 for every cell. Your not going to be operating in pe for very long with a boost setup so putting this value as a constant for the pe table is more of a protection setting in case say, a charge pipe blows off mid pull.
Under the BE table set the first cell to 1.176 then go to the cell that references the 5 psi mark and set that to 1.235. Interpolate linearly form the first cell to the 5 psi cell. Go to the 10 psi cell and put 1.278 and then interpolate linearly from 5 psi to 10 psi cell. go to 20 psi cell and set to 1.300 and interpolate linearly from 10 psi to 20 psi. Anything higher than 20 psi set to 1.300.

Say you are running pump gas, with stoich of 14.7, this setup ensures that you run 12.5 afr when not in boost maintaining safe afr when pressure is lost. then when boost is triggered you taper in form that 12.5 afr to 11.9 afr by 5 psi and continue to taper down to 11.5 afr by 10 psi and 11.3 by 20 psi. anything after that you can stick with 11.3 target until the dyno tells you these values need to be different.

if you change your stoich then you don't have to change your pe or be target values as these values apply the same offset correction in percent regardless of target stoich afr.

Set system to closed loop and tune with wideband using afr error or lambda error, whichever you prefer. The idea is to keep your stoich set to the fuel you run, and then command your pe targets. once those targets are set you don't adjust them, instead you use your wideband response to tune the main fuel tables into your target settings.

[CarlLS]

Cobalt, appreciate your response as well. Just need to get a decent idle first. I'll try all of this tomorrow and see where I get. Would any other parameters with the injectors affect the idle/startup

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Min fuel mg. Usually in the traction control section if it hasnt been moved. Lower it to a really low value like .008

[CarlLS]

I just changed it before I attached the tune. I put it at like .010 or something. My wife Is a saint. I was looking at the tune on my laptop during a road trip.

[CarlLS]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try it all tomorrow, post my updated tune too.

[CarlLS]

Well I think I updated everything you guys had said. Still not getting it to crank. I checked fuel pressure (gauge on rail ~45PSI). Compression check was good, and checked for spark. It seems like it wants to turn over ~400-500 RPMs and then dies. I'm wondering if its got something to do with VATS, I believe I disabled it. On my wideband I noticed I'm not getting anywhere under 14.7 on startup. Is there a table to add fuel at cranking RPMs?

Appreciate any insights.

[5FDP]

If this is a MAF-Less setup, you never failed the MAF sensor.

Set the MAF fail high to 0hz and all 3 MAF DTC's to MIL on first error.

I think your VE is way way way too rich as well, with those size injectors they numbers seems massively inflated.

[Frost]

I'd throw those injectors in the woods and then think about tuning.

[CarlLS]

There's so much to learn! I'm sorry that's a bone head miss. So I've changed the fail high and the DTCs P0101-P0103. I'll do more research on the VE Table. I've not seen many for a boost setup. Any input on what you'd lower the values to or a tune I could take a look at? if not i'll check out the repository.

I think I need to check out the injector data as well, the default and min pulse width, as well as min fuel milligrams.


Appreciate the guidance. I'm learning a ton each step of the way!

[LSxpwrdZ]

I'd throw those injectors in the woods and then think about tuning.

100000000% this

[CarlLS]

What would be a good replacement? Actual dekas?

[CarlLS]

Feel like even with these injectors I should be able to make it idle.

[CarlLS]

If this is a MAF-Less setup, you never failed the MAF sensor.

Set the MAF fail high to 0hz and all 3 MAF DTC's to MIL on first error.

I think your VE is way way way too rich as well, with those size injectors they numbers seems massively inflated.

I set the MAF fail like you mentioned and had the codes to MIL on first error. I can't seem to get any MIL light. Is there any other piece I should be changing to get the MAF Sensor to fail?

[5FDP]

It has to start and run, then it should toss the P0103 code to know it's in speed density.

Or just log the MAF sensor status, it should say failed when running.

Get quality injectors if you do buy some. Do deka's or cheap stuff like that. Fuel injector clinic or Deatchwerks stuff will all have data provided with them.


I've yet to see a single log file of you trying to start it and of it running. That can also help so we can at least what it is doing.