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Thread: Ve tuning

  1. #1
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    Ve tuning

    So when tuning with ve/speed density do you still use the power enrichment for wot. Or just the ve table. Also just installed a cam and it sounds completely stock. I've adjusted the idle toqure tables with no help. Is something else I can change to get this thing to sound more aggressive
    Last edited by FstdodgeKY; 02-15-2020 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    Lean out idle if you are keeping O2 sensors off. If tune is really close and adaptives aren't fighting things it will sound tame. Can try lower timing and RPM too but sometimes that just gets a big lope not choppy aggressive sound.

    Still command what you want in the PE table and use VE table to get there is what I do. Just email me log and where you're at with it if you want. I know your setup really well as it's so similar to my friends I mess with all the time

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    So when tuning with ve/speed density do you still use the power enrichment for wot. Or just the ve table. Also just installed a cam and it sounds completely stock. I've adjusted the idle toqure tables with no help. Is something else I can change to get this thing to sound more aggressive
    Hey. So the demon plus cam is in and sounds stock?
    2013 Chrysler 300S, Stock 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force 2.62 pulley(12.2 lbs boost), fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. aluminum rad. SRT fans. Brembo upgrade. Stage one MOPAR springs, XIX X39 22x9 +15 - 22x10.5 +22 with NITTO NT555 265/35R22 - 295/30R22 going in: TSP boosted Stage 4 226/235 582/582 117+4

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    Yup stock sounding. I just got the car running today. I'll get some logs in a few days. Fighting a coolant leak at oil cooler and need a new hose.

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    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    Yup stock sounding. I just got the car running today. I'll get some logs in a few days. Fighting a coolant leak at oil cooler and need a new hose.
    Can ya share the cam specs? Just got the final pieces for my puzzle.
    2013 Chrysler 300S, Stock 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force 2.62 pulley(12.2 lbs boost), fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. aluminum rad. SRT fans. Brembo upgrade. Stage one MOPAR springs, XIX X39 22x9 +15 - 22x10.5 +22 with NITTO NT555 265/35R22 - 295/30R22 going in: TSP boosted Stage 4 226/235 582/582 117+4

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    What's your email I send you a pic of the card.

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    It's all in the tune on how this thing sounds. I've got a long way to go with mine.

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    Ridenrunmv. I did make make some changes on the tune you sent me just based on what the tuning books said to do. I'm gonna try to load the one you sent with no changes and adjust the ve table as needed as see where that gets me. I'll send some logs after that.

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    So got the car sounding really good with some help, the cam sounds really health at idle now, now i have more questions regarding VE, My major issue seems to be going into WOT, If i just go straight to the floor the car seems responds into PE fairly quickly but if i roll into the gas it takes a while for the car to get the extra fuel and by the time it does im already making max boost well before that. I've adjusted my VE table but still doesn't help with the lag i get going into WOT. Also the car seem sluggish when making big hits, i feel the power come in but just feels almost like its not moving out of its own way. I haven't leaned on it to much because of the lean spots i have in the tune and I know a lot will need to be adjusted still and i am getting help and the more i can do myself the less i will have to rely on my helper, but just like to learn this as i move along. TIA Latest log attached for referancelog 4 ve.hpl
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    So got the car sounding really good with some help, the cam sounds really health at idle now, now i have more questions regarding VE, My major issue seems to be going into WOT, If i just go straight to the floor the car seems responds into PE fairly quickly but if i roll into the gas it takes a while for the car to get the extra fuel and by the time it does im already making max boost well before that. I've adjusted my VE table but still doesn't help with the lag i get going into WOT. Also the car seem sluggish when making big hits, i feel the power come in but just feels almost like its not moving out of its own way. I haven't leaned on it to much because of the lean spots i have in the tune and I know a lot will need to be adjusted still and i am getting help and the more i can do myself the less i will have to rely on my helper, but just like to learn this as i move along. TIA Latest log attached for referancelog 4 ve.hpl
    That tune a secret?? I lowered my [ECM] 44442 - FA WOT Pedal: Above this pedal voltage, the fueling algorithm considers the pedal to be a WOT request to 1.45 to bring in PE earlier. [ECM] 44453 - FA WOT PE Incr: FA WOT PE increase rate to 0.0200
    Don't know if all this is the correct way, but mine works.

    Didn't get my cam pick yet. coanan@hotmail.com
    2013 Chrysler 300S, Stock 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force 2.62 pulley(12.2 lbs boost), fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. aluminum rad. SRT fans. Brembo upgrade. Stage one MOPAR springs, XIX X39 22x9 +15 - 22x10.5 +22 with NITTO NT555 265/35R22 - 295/30R22 going in: TSP boosted Stage 4 226/235 582/582 117+4

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    In your log graphs change the MAP axis in fueling and retard to go upto 200. You're getting some big knock retard numbers.

    Think I have one of you're old tunes showing 17 degrees timing in WOT base, comparing other whipple tunes they are around 12.
    Last edited by coanan; 02-17-2020 at 05:36 PM.
    2013 Chrysler 300S, Stock 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force 2.62 pulley(12.2 lbs boost), fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. aluminum rad. SRT fans. Brembo upgrade. Stage one MOPAR springs, XIX X39 22x9 +15 - 22x10.5 +22 with NITTO NT555 265/35R22 - 295/30R22 going in: TSP boosted Stage 4 226/235 582/582 117+4

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    Email the cam pic and I'll send back my log config file and see if it works for you, it logs a lot more stuff.
    2013 Chrysler 300S, Stock 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force 2.62 pulley(12.2 lbs boost), fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. aluminum rad. SRT fans. Brembo upgrade. Stage one MOPAR springs, XIX X39 22x9 +15 - 22x10.5 +22 with NITTO NT555 265/35R22 - 295/30R22 going in: TSP boosted Stage 4 226/235 582/582 117+4

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    Sent you that cam card. Also the tune will remain a secret sorry guys and gals. The timing is set to 15 I believe now and yes the retard is alot. I'm not making WOT pulls just working on transitions into wot and p/t tuning.

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    So when tuneing VE how do you go about changing commanded afr values. I'm aware on how to get my fueling to my commanded but looking to actually changing my commanded values. Are there multipliers I'm missing somewhere?? Thought I had all this figured out but changing over to speed density has me back tracking now.

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    Still fighting with getting the commanded afr to change. Set FA pedal to 2.0 also tried lower with no real change. FA enrichment rate set to .0200. Also having hard time matching my commanded. I'm using my PE table + stoich value as my commanded fueling and using the ve table to get me what I'm wanting. Is this correct?? Also doing it this way it dosent seem to change my commanded EQ. I believe this is my main issues at the moment. Also would I be better off turning off all o2 sensors and using ve???

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=FstdodgeKY;600421]So when tuning with ve/speed density,do you still use the power enrichment for wot??

    NO, use the VE table to gradually feed in the fuel, its much more tunable.......Eq will remain at 1.000 but just set the AFR using wideband.

    "Or just the ve table." YES, VE table only and stay open loop. Best way to do blower cars with NA os (5.7L, 6.4L etc.)

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    [QUOTE=Hemituna;601021]
    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    So when tuning with ve/speed density,do you still use the power enrichment for wot??

    NO, use the VE table to gradually feed in the fuel, its much more tunable.......Eq will remain at 1.000 but just set the AFR using wideband.

    "Or just the ve table." YES, VE table only and stay open loop. Best way to do blower cars with NA os (5.7L, 6.4L etc.)
    I've been back and forth with doing it this way on non Hellcat. Trying to add fuel for PE based on boost but only after a certain pedal position doesn't necessarily make sense when your VE already has a boost axis

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    [QUOTE=ridenrunwv;601026]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post

    I've been back and forth with doing it this way on non Hellcat. Trying to add fuel for PE based on boost but only after a certain pedal position doesn't necessarily make sense when your VE already has a boost axis

    Correct, much better to add fuel (using VE table) as MAP rises rather than wait for the pedal position to hit a threshold.....screw blowers make way too much boost at low rpm/low pedal position for that to be a good strategy.

  19. #19
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    Thanks guys, after a few revisions this is the way it has been decided to tune, using the VE tables only and NOT the PE tables. The lean spike i was seeing going into boost is all gone and the tuning is much better doing it this way, Much more control on fueling and in my eyes easier to tune as there are less variables
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    So when tuning with ve/speed density,do you still use the power enrichment for wot??

    NO, use the VE table to gradually feed in the fuel, its much more tunable.......Eq will remain at 1.000 but just set the AFR using wideband.

    "Or just the ve table." YES, VE table only and stay open loop. Best way to do blower cars with NA os (5.7L, 6.4L etc.)
    Hemituna just to clarify: The fueling strategy in these ECU's command stoich (Eq of 1) only until an FA enrichment is commanded from the PE table?