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Thread: TCC Unlock, Slip, Lock - What does it mean

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    TCC Unlock, Slip, Lock - What does it mean

    Can anyone shed some light on how these tables work?
    On the 6-speeds (either 6R80 or 6F55), the OSS values for 1st and 2nd indicate there's no lockup being commanded because they are very high.

    But for 3rd gear, the OSS values for Unlock are small, Slip is larger, and Lock is almost always maxed out (7000+ RPM). Yet, I notice the torque converter almost always locked up in normal driving bar the short unlock/lock from throttle tip-in.

    I'm trying to command as much lock-up as possible at WOT and am curious as to how others have tuned their Ford transmissions to achieve this. With the stock settings, my 6F55's have maybe 300-500 RPM slip during/after shifts, and is locked up at WOT 3rd gear mid-way (5000 engine RPM) and same for 4th gear.

    Should I reduce the OSS values for Lock so that it is slightly higher than Slip? Or set them in between Slip and Unlock?

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Your converter is locked from slip to lock, you'd lower your slip value to lock up sooner, or raise it for a later lockup. Lock up rate will change how quickly it locks up after the slip oss is met.

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    Senior Tuner veeefour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    Your converter is locked from slip to lock, you'd lower your slip value to lock up sooner, or raise it for a later lockup. Lock up rate will change how quickly it locks up after the slip oss is met.
    Not quite - under WOT converter slips between slip and lock values.

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    How do I reduce that slip at WOT?
    Also do higher lockup rate values mean faster lockup or slower? Like is 650 ftlb/sec slower than 350 ftlb/sec

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    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    Not quite - under WOT converter slips between slip and lock values.
    I did see that i have a slight slip, i can't feel it but appears to be 5-10 rpm slip. Are you 100% sure this isn't just noise or false data? If not what is the reason for it and do you know how to get rid of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    How do I reduce that slip at WOT?
    Also do higher lockup rate values mean faster lockup or slower? Like is 650 ftlb/sec slower than 350 ftlb/sec
    Yes higher means faster as it's ftlbs/s

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    During my drag racing WOT runs I'd see about 300 RPM slip after shifting for a few seconds in 3rd and 4th. About midway through each gear that slip goes away

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    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    During my drag racing WOT runs I'd see about 300 RPM slip after shifting for a few seconds in 3rd and 4th. About midway through each gear that slip goes away
    We were doing some testing with this over the weekend at the track. It seems it really doesn't matter what you set the lock setpoint to. we tried 5000~7000 OSS in 3rd and results seemed the same. The slip value we would set to about 300 and it would instantly lock up when commanding 3rd gear, if we set it higher to something like 6000 it would slip a lot more and actually gain slip over a non-locked converter. As a work around we'd command 3rd to come on immediately and use the delay to keep it from coming on too early. It seems when the PCM commands 3rd no matter if its made the shift from 2nd already or not it will start locking right away.


    I'd like to get a better description of how this works myself, it doesn't seem to match the descriptions with logic.
    Last edited by bbrooks98; 03-10-2020 at 08:17 AM.
    2011 Mustang GT TT A6
    1998 Eclipse GSX Awd

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrooks98 View Post
    We were doing some testing with this over the weekend at the track. It seems it really doesn't matter what you set the lock setpoint to. we tried 5000~7000 OSS in 3rd and results seemed the same. The slip value we would set to about 300 and it would instantly lock up when commanding 3rd gear, if we set it higher to something like 6000 it would slip a lot more and actually gain slip over a non-locked converter. As a work around we'd command 3rd to come on immediately and use the delay to keep it from coming on too early. It seems when the PCM commands 3rd no matter if its made the shift from 2nd already or not it will start locking right away.


    I'd like to get a better description of how this works myself, it doesn't seem to match the descriptions with logic.
    So if you set the column for TCC Slip to 300 RPM OSS, it would instantly lock (no slip) once you shifted into 3rd? Did you change any of the other tables/settings?

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    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    So if you set the column for TCC Slip to 300 RPM OSS, it would instantly lock (no slip) once you shifted into 3rd? Did you change any of the other tables/settings?

    Yes, set the slip tables low like 300ish and set the lock table to 6200 and it'll lock into 3rd immediately with our gearing. We would log TTC pressure and it'd jump up to 75psi immediately. It seems if you see something like 25 you're getting slip and zero is open obviously. What was odd was with it at 25psi we'd actually get more slip than not trying to lock the converter at all. I'll review the rest of the settings when i'm home as there is some lock to clock and unlock switches that need to be on i'll have to verify.
    Last edited by bbrooks98; 03-10-2020 at 09:50 AM.
    2011 Mustang GT TT A6
    1998 Eclipse GSX Awd

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrooks98 View Post
    Yes, set the slip tables low like 300ish and set the lock table to 6200 and it'll lock into 3rd immediately with our gearing. We would log TTC pressure and it'd jump up to 75psi immediately. It seems if you see something like 25 you're getting slip and zero is open obviously. What was odd was with it at 25psi we'd actually get more slip than not trying to lock the converter at all. I'll review the rest of the settings when i'm home as there is some lock to clock and unlock switches that need to be on i'll have to verify.
    What if you set the OSS to the appropriate MPH you want it to lock up at? Just remember OSS is = to your driveshaft speed, but you still have to anticipate the lockup. Maybe try setting the lockup OSS a little higher but increasing the lockup rate.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner bbrooks98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    What if you set the OSS to the appropriate MPH you want it to lock up at? Just remember OSS is = to your driveshaft speed, but you still have to anticipate the lockup. Maybe try setting the lockup OSS a little higher but increasing the lockup rate.
    We will. We only got 4 passes in that day and the first 2 we wanted to see what'd it do unlocked. I'd just like to get a better definition of whats happening with those tables if possible rather than keep just trying things.
    Last edited by bbrooks98; 03-10-2020 at 03:46 PM.
    2011 Mustang GT TT A6
    1998 Eclipse GSX Awd

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    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    It's been awhile but I found this thread again and noticed the recommendation to set the TCC Slip column to low values. Here's what I've been running for a few years. For WOT Launches and acceleration to 70+ mph, the TCC can't lock until part-way through 3rd gear. So basically in 1st, 2nd, and start of 3rd there will be about 200-300 RPM of TCC Slip. Looking at the Apply map below, it should be commanded to lock earlier. Is this a physical limitation of the converter or do I need to change something else?

    My other question is the tip in/tip out TCC lockup/unlock control. What should I change to make the TCC stay locked during throttle tip-in? From the factory and right now, say I am cruising in 6th gear on the freeway. If I tip-out, the TCC is locked. WHen I tip the throttle in, the TCC will unlock and then lock within a few seconds. I remember on my 4R70W I made these TCC Tip In/Tip Out values high like 10,000 and -10,000 and it'd act like a manual transmission - but the default on 6F55 is about this value yet it still unlocks during tip-in. Any ideas? Do I just max them out?

    TCC Lockup.JPG

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner skylinedan's Avatar
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    Go to trans torque management / General. Table 46153, try raising those.

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I raised those values a few years ago, didn't do much. Stock values were more torque than the engine makes.

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner skylinedan's Avatar
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    well then, not sure what to tell you other than your missing something.

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    A few of us have maxed out the torque reduction limiters and it still cuts the WOT 2-3 down to 150-160 ft-lb during the first three WOT 2-3 shifts. Like clockwork.

    I know there's a parameter somewhere that's not defined. HPTuners isn't much of a help. There's just not as many defined parameters on the N/A 3.5/3.7 TC-1791 strategy versus the TC-1797 with EcoBoost like on the Fusion Sport. On a guess I'd say there are probably more than 100-200 extra parameters defined on the Fusion Sport versus the N/A Explorer/PIU.
    Last edited by metroplex; 03-29-2022 at 05:50 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    A few of us have maxed out the torque reduction limiters and it still cuts the WOT 2-3 down to 150-160 ft-lb during the first three WOT 2-3 shifts. Like clockwork.

    I know there's a parameter somewhere that's not defined. HPTuners isn't much of a help. There's just not as many defined parameters on the N/A 3.5/3.7 TC-1791 strategy versus the TC-1797 with EcoBoost like on the Fusion Sport. On a guess I'd say there are probably more than 100-200 extra parameters defined on the Fusion Sport versus the N/A Explorer/PIU.

    What?s the specific file you?re working with? Can you post it and your original read?
    Last edited by PSM 6.4; 04-07-2022 at 02:13 AM.
    2008 J2 F-350 CCSB

  18. #18
    what the mean when tcc slip read negative like -300 or -900
    blue.jpg

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost ksa View Post
    what the mean when tcc slip read negative like -300 or -900
    blue.jpg
    Negative slip means the trans input shaft is spinning that much faster than the engine. It usually happens when you left off the accelerator.

  20. #20
    But when read negative actually i acceleration or drive to roll

    The input shaft spinning sound not good?